AF Daily Wednesday 8/3

[Kaslo]

AF Daily Wednesday 8/3

Hi Deter, I am glad you have what you consider a safe source of raw milk if that is what you want to have. Thats great for you!

However, lactase is not destroyed by pastuerizing milk, its made by the cells that line your gut, and if you have a deficiency of Lactase you can develop lactose intolerance. Pastuerization does not kill most of the milk enzymes that occur naturally in milk but it DOES kill Listeria, E.coli and salmonella, which is, I would argue a good thing. Drinking raw milk doesnt relieve milk allergies for most people.

Edited to say I have a lot of admiration for people who can manage to lose weight. I dont know much about the Paleo diet, but what ever works...go for it!

[Lavande]

AF Daily Wednesday 8/3

Yeah,
I'm lactose intolerant...among others things :H

My nursing science background & my experience dealing with the ravages of TB in my aunt (a child of the 1920's) & other patients over the years convinces me that drinking raw milk is a no - no. I've always been extremely careful handling & cooking meat too - yuck. Eating out can be a real crap shoot too......had a food borne illness once many, many years ago - yuck.

[Determinator]

AF Daily Wednesday 8/3

Kaslo, what's your source for claiming that pasteurization doesn't destroy enzymes in milk?
if enzymes are not killed in milk pasteurization then why does the FDA test it's effectiveness with a protocol called the "negative phosphatase test" in which phosphatase (needed to hydrolize the calcium in milk) is destroyed. the destruction of this enzyme is proof of pasteurization! am I missing something?

I'm very allergic to regular milk. tonight I drank a whole pint of raw cream and feel bueno.

Lav, statistically your about 14 times more likely to get TB from store-bought pasteurized milk than from US ceritified raw milk. and your MUCH more likely to get sick from eating out than raw milk.

in the 20's there were many illnesses associated with raw milk due to two very important things:
1) incredibly sickly cows
2) complete lack of refrigeration and dismal sanitation practices.

the FDA allows for quite a bit of pathogenic activity in pasteurized milk, but holds extremely high standards for raw milk.

once again, unless we can rationalize a flat-out denial of statistical data, certified raw milk (in the modern era) is considerably safer than fresh vegetables, fresh fruit, touching the handle in a public restroom etc etc etc......


you can be assured that if dangerous pathogens were persisting in modern raw milk production that European nations would ban it....right? apparently it's not an issue: (from wikipedia) please challenge all sources and feel free to refute if you have better data. I'm about finding the TRUTH regardless of it's political correctness.


According to the regulations in the European Union all raw milk products are legal and considered safe for human consumption, and can be sold without any price, variety or quantity restrictions. However, the European countries are free to add certain requirements, usually special sanitary regulations and frequent quality tests (at least once per month) are mandatory




[edit]France
Raw milk and especially raw milk cheeses are considered the standard for high quality dairy products. Many French cuisine traditionalists consider pasteurized cheeses almost a sacrilege. Many traditional French cheeses have solely been made from raw milk for hundreds of years.[10]French Roquefort, a famous blue cheese, which is required by European law to be made from raw sheep's milk.

[edit]Germany
In Germany, raw milk is commonly called Vorzugsmilch.[11] It is sold widely in all health food stores, large supermarkets, gourmet delis and delicatessen sections of department stores, and in most of the German predecessors of health food stores called Reformhaus. Raw milk is legally sold in the entire country, and the same goes for raw milk cheeses, which are especially sought out and promoted by the health food and slow food movements.[12]

[merry]

AF Daily Wednesday 8/3

well I haven't lost any weight from being af which I was hoping I would
I'm not getting into the milk thing I have both and I like full cream milk and never had any problems with milk straight from the cow

[Determinator]

AF Daily Wednesday 8/3

milk straight from the cow? OMG that's not natural!



kudos on being AF merry

[Kaslo]

AF Daily Wednesday 8/3

Hi Deter, i didnt say that pasteurization does not denature enzymes, I said lactase is not destroyed by pasteurization, which is something from one of your posts...its just that lactase (required to breakdown lactose, and the lack of it is the cause of lactose intolerance) is not influenced by pasteurization at all. Its made by the epithelial cells in your gut. unless your lactose intolerant and lack the ability to make lactase.

I think you are pretty pumped about raw milk, and thats great for you Deter, fly at it. But I do know that lactose is present in both raw and processed milk, and if you cant tolerate processed milk but can tolerate raw milk, its possibly not due to lactose intolerance but something else. I am also not denying that milk consumption IS a serious problem for people with lactose intolerance especially, and there are lots of good reasons why milk is not consumed in many human cultures. Its also why milk is pasteurized by regulation in many jurisdictions. I also happen to know for a fact that milk whether raw or pasteurized is quite vulnerable to contamination and degrades quickly.

Anyway, I drink very little milk now because I have a tendancy to get pretty choked up if I do, and I am not sure why, but I would not drink raw milk to see if that helped because it would simply be the introduction of a whole bunch of extra critters, some of which could make me seriously ill. I have had raw milk, in my parents dairy years ago, and I have read quite a bit about it, and studied the microbial stuff in school , back before I was 29.

But like I said, what ever turns your separator crank.

kaslo

[Determinator]

AF Daily Wednesday 8/3

Kas, I'm only motivated by truth, and I value your input and opinions.
indeed lactase is made systemically by some people (not me) so raw milk containing this live enzyme is vital for me to process it. what I found quite amusing in much of the scientific literature I've read is that the 'anti raw milk' folks had a terrible time infecting it due to it's powerful natural enzymatic defenses. At any rate if cows are terribly sick (as they were at the time when Lavandes relative became ill) then it's not a quality food at all.
I think that the politics of the huge diary companies have come into play to muddy the issue quite terribly and I find udderly (oh dear) irritating and intellectually dishonest the disinformation campaign they are waging.
raw milk is only becoming a big issue recently in the US by folks fighting for food freedoms. in Europe however it's always been considered a perfectly good and nutritious food. And even there, more folks are sickened by fresh vegetables. Yes, I'm pumped up about this. There is a huge movement brewing in the US and also Australia on this issue so we'll see lots more about it. sadly that probably means a lot more smokescreen from our government/media complex. just follow the money.

anyway, I'm back on the subject we are all here for.... Sobriety. and all's well there. another night in a hotel room catching up on work email.

love to you Kas and all my AF friends xxxxxx

[Treya]

AF Daily Wednesday 8/3

Not sure grownups should be drinking milk at all -much less the milk of another species!
:H

[Cinders]

AF Daily Wednesday 8/3

Treya,

Tell that to the Irish, whose poorer population have been able to survive in the past on only milk and potatoes.

Milk is a good source of protein and vitamins.

Not sure I want to drink the milk from my own species at this point.

btw, many of us were raised on evaporated milk and corn syrup as youngsters. Baby boomers. Formula did not exist back then and if mom couldn't breast feed, that is what they turned to. I age myself here.

I am not sure about the raw milk thing, though, Det. I, too, grew up in a time when raw milk did pass on TB. Perhaps it is like the pork issue. In Taiwan, we would not eat the pork due to trich, when I lived in Germany, they explained it was due to the feeding practices. Germans are big on pork. They steam their feed before allowing the hogs to eat. That ensures the hogs do not get trich. I still couldn't eat undercooked pork, though.

Cindi

[Kaslo]

AF Daily Wednesday 8/3

its very interesting, this thread. Food sanitation in the time between ice box refridgeration and now has lead to this huge historical fear (and therefore regulation) of contaminantion, because lets face it TB, Trichinosis (which is not from beef, its actually a soil borne, encysting worm), brucilosis, samonella, etc managed to sicken and or kill hundreds of thousands of people in the past. Lactose intolerance is debilitating, but generally not fatal. Maybe millions of people have died from food borne diseases over time. Now that most milk and meat is treated with pastuerization among several treatments, preservatives, antibiotics, etc we have lost sight of the past. We also know that a lot of the preservative treatments are actually linked with other diseases, more insidious, multifactorial ones, including cancer. And we have gotten very GOOD at preventing food born diseases in the previously suspect food items that require refridgeration. Deter is abs correct, we seem more likely at the present time to get E. coli from lettuce, spinach and beans sprouts because these consumables can not be treated with steam. They have to be treated with a disinfectant which is ineffective physically, not to mention not terrific to consume.

Believe me, I get the raw milk movement completely. And I am glad its available for those who want to drink it. But speaking as a toxicologist, I would never start on a large inter state or inter provincial or even regional program of feeding raw milk to children or the elderly on a mass scale, for the reasons why it was banned and regulated in the first place, in many jurisdictions, which is that transport, holding, the potential for very deadly animal borne disease organizms to survive in raw milk is SO much greater than in a pasteurized milk, and so much more devastating to the human population lactose intolerance.

I am very glad that raw milk is available for Deter to have, without the concequences typical to lactose intolerant people! Thats great, but I also know that milk borne disease organisms have not been irradicated, that some of the probiotic organizms in raw milk have a few deadly friends, and we can not expect them to not reappear. We would then go back to sick kids, very sick kids again, just because of trends in raw fresh food, and a tendancy for humans to be several different grades of lactose intolerant.

I would say it is much more likely to avoid disease organisms in milk, meats and produce if were were all to go back to the land, each with three acre spreads and growing our own fresh food. Sounds Utopian, and wonderful. However, I remember the failed communes of the 1960s all too well. Its just not in everyones human nature to farm. I love Marge Piercys vision of small collective farms inside our cities and towns, and yearn for a more pastoral existence. But I also remember how much frigging work it is to farm, I come from 10 generations of Canadian farmers, dairymen and ranchers, and its just not a fun way to make a living, at least not as much fun as we all might think.

Anyways its the NEXT DAY now so I will leave this thread and move on. Love to you Deter. U are a special person in my heart.

Kas

[greeneyes]

AF Daily Wednesday 8/3

The washing machine flooded. That is all.

[papmom3]

AF Daily Wednesday 8/3

Crapola Greenie.

[Doggygirl]

AF Daily Wednesday 8/3

greeneyes;1158110 wrote: The washing machine flooded. That is all.

:upset: OMG. Are you OK?

DG