Announcement

**papmom3** · August 30, 2011, 06:50 AM

AF Daily - Tuesday August 30

:l:lIJM:l:l I'm so glad someone was there for you but I'm even gladder that you recognized you needed the help and reached out. I think that is the most important lesson we learn as recovering alkies. When we acknowledge that we're in trouble, we acknowledge that we have no control over the beast. And once we do that, we can start or restart or continue our journey. Well done friend, well done!!

UGH! I had a massive allergy attack last nite and had to take 2 benedryls. I'm just now getting up!! Massively late for work and not the day to be late although better than tomorrow. Dealing with LOTS of anger about losing those two jobs and it's poisoning my body. Tried very hard to identify with the meditation theme last nite and couldn't. I feel very blocked up and wonder how I'm going to unblock everything. Hmmm. Today will be a day of mindless data entry, sorting by alpha and getting ready for tomorrow. Then quilting class. Should have plenty of time to sort this out!! :H

Read the whole thread from yesterday-just didn't have time to comment. You guys are always on my mind. :h

**universal** · August 30, 2011, 07:11 AM

AF Daily - Tuesday August 30

Hi guys!

IJM - good for you for reaching out for help. Going off anti-depressants rapidly can be brutal for the mind and body. I am on antidepressants and know that no matter how good I feel I can never go off of them. However I have also been diagnosed with major depressive disorder since the age of 15 so my situation is different. But I do understand how it go throw your world into a tailspin.

Going to a meeting today, finishing the laundry and the vacuuming that I didn't get done yesterday. Maybe a movie tonight with my daughter - she wants to go see Glee so who knows. Haven't thought that far ahead yet.

Other than that life is good! Got some of my homework done for my therapist appt on Thursday. One thing I couldn't do so I'll do it with her in session but I'm finding it easier to get the work done now that my mind is not stuck in the past traumas anymore.

Countdown to 90 days is on! Today is day 88!

Love and hugs,
Uni

**Lavande** · August 30, 2011, 08:08 AM

AF Daily - Tuesday August 30

Good morning Abbers!

Bright, sunny & dry in Lav-land this morning

Grateful to have the power back on & hot water to shower & shampoo too

IJM, just a thought here.....
I think it's pretty easy to get hooked on 'good feelings', we're just human. The good feeling of losing 2 1/2 lbs. one week naturally makes you want to do the same the following week but......
I'm keeping myself level headed with my herbal stuff & trying to stay focused on today. It's safe for me

Glad you found a hand here when you needed one!

papmom, this popped up on my G mail page today - try it:
Chakra Healing | Take the Chakra Test and Open Your 7 Chakras

Uni, we're counting with you & hope you have a great day

I'm playing catch up in my shop this morning then meeting a friend for lunch & to deliver a job I did for her.
Grateful to have life back to 'normal'. Wishing everyone a great aF Tuesday!

Lav

**Doggygirl** · August 30, 2011, 08:14 AM

AF Daily - Tuesday August 30

fABbies!!! IJM, very thoughtful post. I'm glad you reached out for help and have reassessed your goals, etc. This is surely a journey! The important thing is that you managed to stay on the path and learn from the experience. And it's so important that we share this stuff!!!!

DogLvr, GREAT to see you check in yesterday!! Hope you are feeling better today.

Hello everyone else - I'm on the run to school. Still :H over the mention of my beloved Johnny in my text book. :h

One thing is for sure, I'm being buried alive in homework and drinking would definitely not help! So I'm not goin' there today.

DG

**Determinator** · August 30, 2011, 08:31 AM

AF Daily - Tuesday August 30

Happy day ABeroooos!

IJM, oh man, I don't know if you recall but I had exactly the same thing happen trying to get off of citalopram about a year and a half ago. it freaked me out pretty bad. so glad you are ok and right here with us.

I got a couple minutes of skype with my dear Dx last night

she's doing great but really tired. they complete the temple project so now they are finally relaxing a bit. just glad she's ok. whew. I'm such a worry wort.

well, I'm up early to head west for work. be back tonight after about 8 hours of driving.

be well friends

**momof3** · August 30, 2011, 11:15 AM

AF Daily - Tuesday August 30

Good Morning Abbers,

Very moved by your post this morning IJM and by P3's post about where she is at too. It reminded me that it is so important for us to contiually self-reflect, self-assess and make the necessary adjustments. Being an addict forces us to be conscious of our internal states and our behavior which I don't think is necessarily the case for alot of people. I see alot of people are going through the motions and not living intentionally.

Last week of freedom for my girls before the school year starts. I'm thinking of taking them to the beach for a couple of days but can't get myself motivated in that direction!!! I don't travel that much for work anymore and last week's travel really threw me off. Can't seem to get my groove back.

Later
M3

**Cinders** · August 30, 2011, 12:36 PM

AF Daily - Tuesday August 30

I wanted to chime in on the depression, feelings of anxiety, etc.

My husband has pointed out continually to me (and I MEAN continually ad nauseum, that most of the world deals with these issues without medicating with alcohol.

I have figured out that we are supposed to have some of these feelings. (Please, understand, I am not of the "Tom Cruise" sp? mindset that we should not take meds, I need some strong meds for my brain and without them, I could not function.) But, his point is that the entire population of this planet has "good" feelings and "bad" feelings. Most people do not seek medication to make it better.

Why did we seek a drug to help us? I have no idea. I do know that the first time I drank some wine after work and then later when "legal" drank Harvey's Bristol Creme after work, those one or two drinks made my life "bearable."

Where I am going with this is that it is okay to feel bad. It is okay to be stressed. It is okay to be anxious.

What is NOT okay is to pick up a "medication" such as alcohol to deal with it.

Why?

Because then we never learn how to deal with everyday stress, anxiety, depression, etc.

On top of that, as I am a "late stage" alcoholic, I have lost many great highs in my life. I have missed the good stuff.

I'll take the bad stuff if it means I can get the good stuff.

Oh, shoot. This sounds weird and I am such a mathematical and logical person. But, our lives are not binary, they are analog. Many "grey" areas.

I want the "good" stuff. So, I have to forgo the "bad" stuff.

Sorry if this seems rambling but I did learn in rehab that we used alcohol in the beginning very successfully to overcome the "bad" stuff. Unfortunately, alcohol overcame that and became the worst enemy we have ever known.

Sorry about this diatribe but I have been thinking a lot lately about this addiction. I am sick and tired of this beast. I threw the yolk off and am now struggling through the mud. I can get to the hard bank where travel is not perfect but is doable.

Please forgive the allegory.

But for me, this is where I am. Struggling in the muck, an ox willing to take me further into the muck to no avail and struggling for the bank.

I think I shall reach for the bank.

I am grateful I have so many friends here who have reached that bank and are walking it.

Love,
Cindi

**LVT25** · August 30, 2011, 12:54 PM

AF Daily - Tuesday August 30

Hello friends,

I'm a little pressed for time (as usual) but I wanted to pop in and comment on the insightfulness of you all! Cindi--I know exactly what you are saying. When I was talking with my friend the other day about how she drinks to cope--I told her that was a very hard thing for me when I quit. I started drinking so young--that I dont know how to handle stuff very well. You said it so much better than I can. This is another reason I stress to the young people to not start drinking before their brains are developed, because they will do damage to that part of the brain and it will come to rely on the chemicals to feel good. That is what sucks. I didn't learn how to have fun without alcohol, etc. Right?

Anyway--I'm glad you're feeling better IJM and that you found the support you needed instead of effing up all your hard work!:h

Gotta go! Zoom zoom!:h

**jennyneric** · August 30, 2011, 03:03 PM

AF Daily - Tuesday August 30

Hey all,
On the discussion today, I was raised in a family who showed very little emotion, especially not negative emotion, so I think I started to use AL as a way to squish the emotion, to not feel it, because I though showing emotion was a bad thing. I, like LVT, started using (substances) very young because I felt uptight and unable to let loose without them. To a great extent I still feel that way however, DG said that she enjoys the serious stuff more than the light heart-ed social stuff, I think maybe I do also. Maybe I have a hard time letting loose because I am not comfortable being loose so that is why I need the help of a substance. Maybe if I can accept that a intellectual conversation is how I relax then the people that I know will accept that also...or I will change the people that I know.

Good conversation today! I loved my classes last night. The fall term seams more manageable homework wise than summer. I am already starting to worry about the weekend. I don't want to drink anymore! My daughters 15th birthday is Sunday ( I will trade with anyone for anything until she's 20!). I think the best plan is to do something, anything, but drink...and to realize I can not make the drinking thoughts go away but we can co exist...they will be there and I will accept it and I will not act on it...

**Lavande** · August 30, 2011, 03:32 PM

AF Daily - Tuesday August 30

Greetings to DG - the school girl

Deter, glad you are OK. Drive carefully

Cindi, glad to hear you are reaching for the bank. Walk there with us, we love to have you :l

LVT, I am still learning to have fun without AL but it is completely doable. Prractice, practice, practice, right?

Jenny, bless you....a 15 year old daughter is such a joy? Well, anyway, she will be one day just like mine is now

Met my friend for lunch but now I'm a bit concerned. She is just 2 years older than I am but her STM is gone! The first thing I said when we met in the restaurant parking lot was 'Hi Susan, I'm so happy my power came back on last night'. She managed to tell me 3 times while we were eating & when we were saying goodbye 'I hope your power comes back on soon

Geez, that really sucks! Scares me because I remember when her Mom died from a massive brain tumor.

Why do we have to be 29+ year olds???

**ItsJustMe** · August 30, 2011, 04:01 PM

AF Daily - Tuesday August 30

Ok, I am going to get boring and clinical for a minute. Please forgive my verbal bowl movement but I would like to give my insight on depression and anxiety for what it is worth. (OH CRAP – HE IS ON A SOAP BOX AGAIN!!!) :soapbox::soapbox::soapbox: I think it’s important to understand “how I got here”. This may be a "well duh!" for a lot of folks but I'm a little slow.... This has been a hot button for me for a long time so that is why I am so opinionated about it!

On dealing with Anxiety/Depression and “normal feelings” I think there is an important distinction and one that I can personally draw from. Everyone has feelings – ups and downs – that is true. But there is also true clinical depression and clinical anxiety. This is not just a bad time or a high time. This is manifested in a person that has a true physiological chemical imbalance. That person (me) is different than the majority population. I have an issue where my brain does not produce enough serotonin or that the serotonin produced is reabsorbed so at a rate that it cannot be used. Because of this, depression in people like me is not something we can just snap out of. To be quite blunt and honest it is a serious affliction that almost left my wife as a widow a few years ago. These feeling have been fought since I was about 30 years old. Unfortunately, rather than seeking medical help I medicated myself with alcohol. This worked for a while but soon a tolerance was built up. Add more alcohol. After a few years, the alcohol can no longer cover the true physiological problem. This is where medicine steps in, actually identifies the problem and prescribes a medication that can actually deal with the issue. The sad part is that this hypothetical person (me) is already addicted to alcohol. So as the dosage of the medication is being adjusted, it is factoring in the alcohol as well. So then when this person removes alcohol from the equation, the balance is totally messed up – as I have been recently.

Can I ever get off of an anti-depressive agent? Right now I would say the answer is no. Can I reduce my dependence? I am certainly going to try. However, it is something that I now realize will take time. Also, I think realizing the relationship between alcohol and depression and how one can end up where I am is an important step.

Just my two cents (but your mileage may vary)…

IJM

**Doggygirl** · August 30, 2011, 04:23 PM

AF Daily - Tuesday August 30

(((IJM))) Please keep working with your doctor. And if you are anything like me, studying up on the condition of despression and the medication options, etc. I think there really are a lot of us who became depressed because of the AL, so dumping AL puts us on the path to no depression all by itself. But that is not everyone and the miracles of modern science are there in ways nobody could imagine a 100 years ago to improve quality of life across the board for more and more people.

My hardest class right now is a class about Dual Diagnosis (mental & substance). Only a week in, it is obvious that both diagnosis and treatment are very complex, and that figuring out the key to stability as the substances of abuse are removed is not always easy.

I hope you will keep talking about what you are feeling, and also what actions you and your doc are taking med wise, etc. to help you feel your best.

OK. Now this is getting creepy. Johnny Depp has been casually mentioned in ANOTHER text book for this semester. This is not in reference to high profile people with addictions or whatever. If Charlie Sheen was mentioned in every textbook having to do with addiction I would not be surprised. These are just casual references sucha as in a "Test Yourself" exercise at the end of this chapter, one of the exercises is "Using 3 different developmental theories, explain how Johnny Depp or Queen Latifah achieved their success." I don't know about Queen Latifah, but I'm sure my constant sending of good universal vibes to Johnny had something, or maybe even EVERYTHING to do with his success.

It's a conspiracy. These authors are out to get my man. And I'm not going to take that sitting down! :b&d:

:H OK. I better make dinner and then read this stinking human development chapter again. I will never be able to remember Piaget's theory v. Vygotsky's theory. And why do I need to know that anyway?????

One thing is for sure....later I'm going to make a thread with the link to the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria for "Substance Abuser" and "Sustance Dependent." We can all analyze ourselves and have a little fun. If there was any doubt in my mind before where I stood, there is certainy no longer a micron of a question!

DG

**momof3** · August 30, 2011, 05:01 PM

AF Daily - Tuesday August 30

IJM, I think your point is very well taken and very much aligned with Doggygirl's studies on dual-diagnosis. Depression is a serious disease in and of itself and the studies on dual-diagnosis show that folks who have clinical depression (or anxiety, or ADHD) are prone to self-medicating with alcohol (or some other substance) This in turn leads to another big fat problem called addiction. In other words, for some, the alcohol did not cause the depression; it was used as a means of coping with the depression but in the long run made it even worse. There are many alcoholics who have been in recovery for years who still take anti-depressants because they have this disease/chemical imbalance called depression. So I want you to know that I hear you and completely understand that what you were experiencing was not just a "normal low" it was much more than that.

I think that the discussion on learning to cope with the lows in life without alcohol is a valid one and I am one of the folks who is learning to do that since I started drinking at such an early age. What IJM is talking about is different and I for one would not want him to come away with the impression that we are saying that he just has to learn to cope better (i.e., go off of the meds) because that may not be the case. I don't think that this was the intention; I think the discussion turned to a slightly different topic.

Ok, I'm done with my soapbox

DG, Maybe all of your studies will bring you closer to Johnny Depp. Funny how his name keeps popping up.

**DogLvr** · August 30, 2011, 05:15 PM

AF Daily - Tuesday August 30

Hi all - really deep thoughts today! Am almost over my cold - did a nice pilates class and bike yesterday and now off to try a run. God knows I probably won't be ready for my race next weekend - HELPP!

Hope everyone has a great rest of the day - the weather here is absolutely gorgeous.

DG - It"s so nice to hear you so excited and passionate about your classes.

UNI - great job on 88

Det -save driving - that's a haul of a commute.

Welcome Guest to My Way Out Forums.

Announcement

AF Daily - Tuesday August 30

AF Daily - Tuesday August 30

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment