AF Daily - Friday, March 2

[FlyAway]

AF Daily - Friday, March 2

Great news Shue! :band2:

[LVT25]

AF Daily - Friday, March 2

Hello friends!

Wow, everyone is doing so well! So much insight and determination!!! Keep up the great work!:goodjob:

Dang, that cake looked yummy and all the talk about delicious food on here, makes me hungry! The discussion about Coconut oil is interesting too. After watching Dr Oz with....crap his name left me, anyway, they recommend Safflower oil to reduce belly fat. I added that to my diet pretty regularly for awhile, but then started forgetting. Are the benefits from coconut oil similar? I have tried all kinds of things to increase my energy level. I'm taking Vitamin D3, Vitamin B, B Complex, Omegas.....I am seriously tired all of the time. I don't even have the energy to go out and walk, which would probably be the best thing for me. UGH!

I was really down in the dumps last night after #1 son and I went to see his ADD doc and refill his prescription. Those of you that have heard my complaints about the med costs before--get this--$450 for 120 capsules!!! It is supposed to be for 1 month supply so he can take a dose in the afternoon, but he will get by on 2 capsules a day. I knew this was coming, because my local pharmacist warned me. His price was already that high months ago, so he sent me to Walgreens and Walmart. When I called Walmart--$700 for same scropt. That is friggin outrageous in my opinion. My son feels pretty bad, he is offering to try school without the meds and see what happens. In the meantime, I'm going to have to do some research and see if there is anything else we can try within reason. Our insurance doesn't cover prescriptions--it is applied to our $5000 deductible. We do have an HSA which is what I'll have to use to pay for this.

I had a really uneventful day at the vet clinic yesterday. Pretty quiet. Today I have to get as much done as I can in the bookwork department, then another full weekend.

Have a great sober weekend all!:h

[mylife]

AF Daily - Friday, March 2

Hello Abbers! Wow - I need to get to this thread earlier - there are so many posts that are so great to read!

Shue - I'm jealous you're going skiing. I miss those days! I grew up in the north and now live in the south. I need to plan a trip to visit my girlfriend in Park City. Problem is I'll have to confess I don't drink anymore - oh well.

Fly - I love that - turning 29 for the 18th time!! I'm going to start using that.

Blonde - how can you be on a low carb diet and show off a cake like that??!! My low carb diet has been going great for the last 2 days. I feel so much better - I'm AF AND I'm losing weight??!! It's almost too good to be true!

I have been sleeping SO well. Even if I do wake up (I have done this for years mostly due to AL but also I think due to Periomenopause) I read or have a glass of milk and fall right back asleep. I LOVE AF Sleep!!!

Have a fantastic day Abbers!

[Lavande]

AF Daily - Friday, March 2

LVT - see if this helps:
Compare prescription drug prices and online pharmacy ratings at PharmacyChecker.com

[Almostfamous]

AF Daily - Friday, March 2

Fly- sending good thoughts your way!

Shue- congrats! I'm sensing some new, rockin shoes in your future.

LVT25- safflower oil eh? I need to suck down about 4 Sam's Club size bottles of that stuff!!! Lol

Momof3- yes, trying to re-train my old brain. Can I borrow your legs for my upcoming trip? They are much more fit than mine!

My life- I'm with you on s l e e p. Ahhhh it's finally happening!

[Kaslo]

AF Daily - Friday, March 2

Hi everyone, hope everyone is having a good day.

In aswer to Shues question, what supplements to take, I have to say first that I am not a qualified and knowlegeable liver specialist, and if anyone on here is wondering if they have damaged thier liver, I advise them to seek out a qualified and knowlegeable physician who specializes in alcohol damage recovery to get specific advice related to thier particular condition. The liver metabolizes many nutrients and drugs and liver patients should not add any substances without close monitoring by a qualified physician.

I urge any of you with symptoms of hardened liver or fatty liver disease, however mild to have your liver enzyme profiles tested and then follow the advice given.

So I am going to explain in plain English I hope, what happens, what kinds of symptoms there are and a few of the supplements that are used, but you all have to sign a waiver that sez you will check this out, as there are a lot of interesting and possibly harmless theories out there, but there are also a huge number of causes of harm caused by following regimines with no biochemical analyiss and guidance. Many regimines do no harm because we are very flexible and it actually takes a lot to kill us, so bear with me.

If you think you have done no harm to your liver, think again. Liver disease can be silent for a long time before it expresses. The liver is a large organ, the largest actually, and its in the upper right side of your abdomen. The liver detoxifies the blood and produces bile, it deals with a huge number of substances, and AL is just one. A cirrhotic liver or hardened liver becomes this way because of the collagen that the liver produces. AL produces free radicals, compounds that are charged and do a lot of damage, the liver combats the onslought, up to a point. The liver produces thousands of enzymes, these enzymes get quite a workout by an AL abusing person. Doctors use the enzyme test to determine which enzymes are present indicating which toxins the liver is fighting. So after quitting AL its not that everything is instantly hunky dory. It means that the liver enzyme zoo is in an uproar for at least two weeks, then its possible to find out which enzymes are present in higher amounts over time, allowing diagnosticians to fiure out if your pancrease, liver, etc is damaged and what the probable cause is. There can be multiple causes, hepatitis, diabetes, obesity, drug abuse AND alcohol and sometimes, god help us, all of the above.

Ima say it again. Symptoms can be insidious, conditions can persist in some people and present NO symptoms for years, some can consume copious quantities with few symptoms expressed, some need very little AL for symptoms to express, and everything in between.

Have you damaged your liver? Look for the following

spidery red lines in the face
bruising
jaundice (yellowing or clammy looking skin)
Swollen abdomen
swollen limbs
clubbed finger tips
pale fatty stools

Those are just indicators, you can have this with other conditions.

So the use of AL in damaging amounts and this varies per person. Others are better at these guidelines than I am,,, results in the following deficiencies

It lowers the antioxidents, Vitamin E, s-adenosyl L methionine (SAMe). Virtually all AL abusers with Alcohol-caused hepatitis are nutrient deficient, if they have drank and not eaten. Its that simple. So I am going to stop here, and start with a second message that has some of the recent research summarized, and again I want to stress please take your individual beautiful and lovable selves into a qualified person with a background in AL recovery diagnostics and get a plan together, dont treat yourself with stuff your liver can not deal with at this point in time, just because you think its good for your dog, or someone on here tells you its great. INCLUDING ME.

Kaslo of the FN in bed with something awful.

[LibraryGirl]

AF Daily - Friday, March 2

Happy Friday Everyone!! Day 9, sunshine!!! :H

AlmostFamous, Have you read The Thirteenth Tale, by Diane Setterfield? Good read. I read so much it's hard to think of something, but that is a goodie. I am currently reading, Drinking: A Love Story, by Caroline Knapp on my Kindle. It's her story of alcoholism, and boy is it a doozy.

See you all in the forums!!

[Almostfamous]

AF Daily - Friday, March 2

LG- no I haven't. Thanks a bundle. I am a s l o w reader but enjoy it. It helps me fall asleep.

[Kaslo]

AF Daily - Friday, March 2

Second message for those of you wondering about supplements to help your liver along.

If you have the symptoms described above, and even if you dont, its not a bad idea to have your liver enzyme profile checked periodically and be honest with your physician about how much you drink. Remember that many physicians have AL and drug problems themselves, and are loath to or are ignorant of how to properly diagnose this problem. Thus the above precautions on qualified and knowlegeable physicians. Im shocked at how little docs know or care to know about AL abuse and the pysiological and neurological results of it.

So what are we missing in the early days???

AL usesrs then to have low levels of Vitamin C
Low levels of riboflavin
Low levels of vitamin A
Low zinc
Pyridoxine (B6) (aside, because I am a tox person I used to think if I supplemented with these I would be fine. I was dead wrong)

So how does a physician figure out if you are one of the unfortunate billion people on the face of the earth being harmed by your AL consumption?

1. timed blood test for persistence of the enzymes responsible for detox in the liver in the absence of continued Al use. (in brackets but very big here QUIT DRINKING)

2. diagnostic imagery of the liver tissue using tomography, ultrasound, magnetic resonance imagery to look for fatty liver disease, collagen formation... what my mom called hobnails on the liver.

Supplements and or dietary regimes

8 eight ounce glasses of clean water a day
Omega 3 fatty acids (fish oils) and cut back on corn oils
You need vitamin E to metabolize the fish oil. Nutrition is complicated, everything usually needs at least one or two other things to get absorbed across the gut, thus the need for dietary variation. Omnivory development in mammalia was not just an accident.

So AL consumption delpletes the glutathione and SAMe and replacing it seems to help the rebound triggers and urges that AL withdrawal seems to inflamme.

Antioxidants are in short supply in the AL abuser, so there are a few things that research has shown increase antioxident production

Milk thistle seed extract (Silymarin) inhibitis the inflammation in the liver. The explanation for this I will spare you

Here are a few that also inhibit the progression of the disease cirrhosis

glycrrhizin
Schisandra
vitamin C
Lipoic acid
alpha tocopherol

Diets rich in fruits and dark green leafy vegetables decreased the progression of cirrhosis, while high animal fats and sugar increased it.
AL abusers should avoid the non-fruit sources of sugar OR consume more fibre,

Another thing thats in the med lit on AL recovery is the need for branched chain amini acids (we cant make them ourselves) such as amino a leucine, isoleucine, valine.

In the end the message is

1. Reduce eliminate the toxin
2. Flush the body with water
3. Decrease consumption of omega 6 fats (corn oils)
4. Replace the antioxidents with a good healthy balanced diet
5. Obtain appropriate nutritional pharmacologica support and KNOWLEGE about your condition, ie READ folks, dont just start dosing yourself
6. Start exercising, mild at first, with advice from a Q and K doc

Warning: some nutritional supplements in combination with preexisting meds can cause serious problems. Dont combine EPA / DHA with warfarin, = bleeding. Milk thistle seed oil + some tranquilizers combats the effectiveness of the tranquilizer.

So that is my not so short story. I realize these messages are long, and I am sorry about that. However, I do see an alarming number of people enthusiastically subscribing or prescribing to themselves and others lots of medications supplements etc with no real understanding of the long term implications, and I just think its so much wiser to actually go to someone who has spent a lifetime learning about this disease and how to treat and facilitate recovery. Be selective however, as unfortunately as lay people we really dont know who is knowlegeable and dedicated to this problem in the medical field. Dont hesitate to get several opinions and recommendations before you settle on a person who can really help you.

And finally, we are all on here because we KNOW we have a problem. AL makes us BS ourselves, me included, and if I can quit for a year just to see if there is an improvement everyone else can to. Lots of good advice here on how to quit and get through the first part. Advice on diet and regimins and things to do to help out not so good, but fortunately as I said in the beginning, we are actually very tough, and can take a lot. Liver damage IS insiduous and silent however, and the good news is of course you can fix it if its not too badly broken.

Kaslo of the Frozen North

[shueaddict]

AF Daily - Friday, March 2

Kaslo, thx, I had bloodwork checked 3 times in the past 3 years + 2 scans - they were all normal. BUT - I had symptoms consisten with estrogen dominance, and a liver busy with flushing AL is not good. Feeling better now . Plan to repeat the tests soon.

I am retiring to Bedforshire soon, with a nice cup of Lavender tea. I plan to hit the slopes early tomorrow. Good night to you all, I hope the sleep fairy picks up the 9 iron again.

[Kaslo]

AF Daily - Friday, March 2

Well done Shue, you I dont worry about.

k

[stella123]

AF Daily - Friday, March 2

thanks for the advice Kaslo i do take a number of supplements but really just "go with the label" so food for thought here.....thanks

[sugarbeat]

AF Daily - Friday, March 2

that's the only simple part of my recovery

Thiamin tablet and a berocca Boost in the morning, and just a good breakfast lunch and tea after that, if only everything was so simple

[Kaslo]

AF Daily - Friday, March 2

your welcome Stella. I spent the morning checking my facts, but I could have summarized by saying a well balanced freg veg and fruit based diet low in animal fats, lots of water fresh air and exercise...

I dont want people to feel threatened, either. lots of very knowledgeable peeps here.

k

[Lavande]

AF Daily - Friday, March 2

Oh God Kas -
Is there going to be a test in the morning?? :H

Seriously though - thank you for taking the time to post all that info.
One thing I'd like to add.......I am amazed when people post they are having 'liver pain'. Honestly, I don't believe there really is such a thing. I had patients over the years with end stage liver disease of one type or another & they never complained of 'liver pain'. We were taught as students that there is no such thing, really.
I imagine the discomfort that most people feel is more likely related gall bladder issues, inflammation, etc.

I am currently reading an interesting book called: 'The Inside Tract - The Good Gut Guide to Great Digestive Health' by Gerald E. Mullin, MD. Talk about exciting reading :H :H