AF day Tuesday Sep 3

[momof3]

AF day Tuesday Sep 3

Good Morning All,

Happy holiday to those in the U.S. Kids are back to school tomorrow

I read through the last couple of days on the AF thread. I do not come to this thread as often as I used to but I have to say that this Monthly Abs thread was my lifeline for a very long time. It was the only thread I read and posted on for quite a while.

What separated this thread from so many others here was that people held each other accountable for being AF and I listened to and learned from those who had a solid amount of AF under their belts. The pats on the back and the "it's okay, just get back on the wagon" type comments only went so far for me; there were many other threads I could have participated in if that is what I wanted. What worked was people geing completely honest and authentic in their feedback. People who asked the tough questions.

The path to becoming AF is not easy; like all learning and growth, it requires some discomfort and honest self-assessment. I liken it to training for a marathon. If I wasn't keeping up with my training/mileage and my coach said to me, "that's okay," I know that I in no way would be prepared to run that 26 plus miles on the race day and I might even get injured. Support and love are great and I thrive on it. I also know that honesty, feedback, and being out of my comfort zone is how I grow.

Love and respect to all,
M3

[CanToo]

AF day Tuesday Sep 3

Happy Labour Day everyone and welcome Kuya:wavin:

I'm so glad everyone one is here today.

So many of you helped me so much when I first found my way here. The positive feel and the support made me stay on this site. Thank you Mick, Kas, Lilly, Lav, YAH, PQ, Shue, Satz, Sunflower and TDN. You made this a BS free zone in what has otherwise been a stressful year for me.

It's been a busy 9 days since I made it to 30 AF days (tomorrow is my 40th) and i am feeling more positive about this number than I was the 30. I think it has a lot to do with the exercise I have been getting in. :baaah: And because I have been AF I have been able to re-connect with friends, get out of the house and volunteer for my boat club.

The next 2 weeks are packed full of activity and friends, but I will find my way back here everyday to see what life lessons I have yet to learn.

Mick - I'll have a green tea please.
Lilly and Shue - I love the shoes. I think maybe I will treat myself when I hit 60.
Greenie and Chef - HI

[ChefRobaire]

AF day Tuesday Sep 3

Hi Cantoo,
I look forward to 30 and beyond with the support of this awesome website. It seems that keeping busy and exercise have been key to keeping me out of the pub...I shall continue..

[Irie]

AF day Tuesday Sep 3

Good morning. I've been following this thread for a while and would like to join you. I am more than ready to take on a 30 day challenge. I joined this site over a year ago, and credit it with helping me switch from a daily bottle of wine drinker (and sometimes more) to someone who can string some AF days together most weeks.

The problem is that my goal is to quit completely, and I'm tired of not being successful.

A little about myself... I'm in my mid-50s, with three grown children and 5 grandchildren. I have a stressful job that I frequently use as an excuse to drink. Of course, I also use sunny days, weekends and an evening in front to the tv as excuses. My husband also drinks way too much. He is only just getting to the place where he wants to cut down. His goal at this point is to only drink on weekends. I don't think that will work for him, but heaven knows I tried all kinds of "drinking plans" before coming to the realization that for me the only way is to quit completely.

I'm sure that it's hard for others to stop drinking if they have a spouse that either doesn't drink, or can take it or leave it, but for me, having a husband who has as much trouble as I do has made it impossible! Last night, at about the time I usually start drinking I told him I was having a tough time resisting. A couple of minutes later, he brought me a glass of wine! I couldn't believe it. I really don't think he was sabotaging me, though. I think 1) his judgement wasn't that great because he has already started drinking for the evening and 2) he's heard me say so many time that I'm quitting that he just assumed I would be giving us as usual.

I'd love to lose the 20 pounds that have crept on over the years and are surely attributable to the massive number of calories in all those bottles of wine. I want the healthy glow to my skin I get a glimpse of after a few AF days. I want my confidence back. I want to succeed. This is my time! I deserve it and will work dammed hard to make sure this is my very last day one ever.

[shueaddict]

AF day Tuesday Sep 3

Good evening, abbies,

Big welcome to Kuya and OMG, Lilly ... Those are some heels, green with envy here ...

Irie, stick around, occasionally we do take out the top shelf coffee - Jamaican Blue mountain - for getting our days started in style.

Cantoo and Chef ... Exercise and plenty of it, right on. I have wiped the dust and cat paw prints off my treadmill this morning . It felt good and the high nearly lasted all day.

Caysea, thanks so much for the words of wisdom. I often have wondered if I am not giving it " half ass efforts" myself. I've also had moments when I was really at a loss as to what to do next. I spent quite a bit of time today on the Smart recovery's many lists of initials. I like the fact that there is quite a lot of structure.

Mo3, you rock!

Right, that's as far as I dare to go on the iPad, have a great night everyone

[shueaddict]

AF day Tuesday Sep 3

Good evening, abbies,

Big welcome to Kuya and OMG, Lilly ... Those are some heels, green with envy here ...

Irie, stick around, occasionally we do take out the top shelf Jamaican Blue mountain for getting our days started in style.

Cantoo and Chef ... Exercise and plenty of it, right on. I have wiped the dust and cat paw prints off my treadmill this morning . It felt good and it nearly lasted all day.

Caysea, thanks so much for the words of wisdom. I often have wondered if I am not giving it " half ass efforts" myself. I also have moments when I am really at a loss as to what to do next. I spent quite a bit of time today on the Smart recovery's many lists of initials. I like the fact that there is quite a lot of structure. And thx for the occasional chat, I really do appreciate those.

Mo3, you rock!

Right, that's as far as I dare to go on the iPad, have a great night everyone

[YoungAtHeart]

AF day Tuesday Sep 3

Welcome, Irie! You have found a good group here, and I hope you will get the support and encouragement that you need. I think that having someone around you who is drinking may be hard, but then, it may also keep you on your guard. I hope hubby is successful with his weekend drinking, which will make it a bit easier on you.

Chef, tomorrow is actually Day 30, but I'll accept the kudos a day early!

Shue, it sounds like you have been doing some very hard thinking. Good for you.

Have a good night, everyone!

YahYah
(with hugs, of course) :l

[Lavande]

AF day Tuesday Sep 3

Good evening Abbers,

Welcome Irie, the coffee is good here

YahYah, 30 AF days looks good on you, CONGRATS

Shue, glad you are back in good form today. Are you going to be racing Mick to start the thread in the mornings again??

Greetings M3, CanToo & everyone else who dropped in today.
I will be on grandson watch for 12+ hrs tomorrow. May the Lord be with me :H :H
Those two little boys are a blessing & a handful all in one!

Wishing everyone a great AF night!
Lav

[Turnagain]

AF day Tuesday Sep 3

caysea;1372983 wrote: Hi All
Good to see AF discussed in a strong way.
We all have to remember that we are lay people trying to help each other deal with a major problem in our lives. The aspect of tough love and the nice approach has always been a problem at MWO. We don't have a set program like smart recovery or AA we have only our own plan. Throw in the aspect of moderation and the road to AF gets blurry around here. Some of us may sound hard line [we are] but we have also BS ourselves and everyone around us before we got sober. If we don't question you on your plan who will. We are asking each other to be honest. This is the corner stone to getting sober. HONESTY!

Caysea....you've got a great way of distilling the issues to produce clarity....and you've got the history - on this site and in your own life - to provide credibility and wisdom. It's a gift that you've added your pearls to this vital discussion here.

We are all sure learning a lot from the recent turbulence here and that's a good thing for those who are just beginning to try on the AF way of living all the way to those who are running strong on the path.

Addiction is crazy tough because the physiological aspects are rooted deep within the part of the brain we do not have direct control over. BUT....we DO have control over the MOST powerful part of our brain...and that's the part we MUST actively retrain AND listen to even when faced with the seemingly overwhelming cues and physical cravings to drink.

Brain-retraining - otherwise known as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) isn't just some pop-psychobabble happy-schmappy talk. It has VERY real outcomes in terms of reducing craving. Here's some interesting research I recently read about:

Cognitive Strategy Reduces Craving by Altering Brain Activity | National Institute on Drug Abuse

Knowledge is Power. And the power that knowledge like this has given me is immense. When I understand the problem - I understand how to effectively solve it.

In making that HONEST appraisal that Caysea talked about, I had to acknowledge I was addicted to alcohol. And as I looked around on this site, other sites and their programs and the research, it was clear that inspite of different approaches that the ONLY certain way to be free of alcohol addiction is to .....not use alcohol.

In case you missed it, LillyE posted a marvelous link yesterday about abstinence that is really thought-provoking:

Alternative Addiction Recovery Course -Total Abstinence and the Zero Tolerance Policy

If the thought of never drinking again scares you...it's time to dig in a figure out why. Drinking defies reason - afterall, as you may know what I'm fond of saying in bold letters: Ethanol is a toxin. Here's another way of putting it:

ETHANOL IS A TOXIN.

Ah....but remember...the part of the brain that is dependent on the chemcial alteration that alcohol produces isn't reasonable in the truest definition of reason. So when a craving surfaces... whether it's a stressful situation, a pleasurable situation or even seemingly out of the blue....there's no need to freak. It's not a sign of weakness. It's just the primitive part of the brain reacting to an environmental cue. And we can actively choose to avoid acting on that craving. And the more we do that...the better we get at it. And the rewards....are unending.

[LillyE]

AF day Tuesday Sep 3

Lovely post MO3. I value your words here as your story has been inspiring for me. And you expressed what I was trying to beautifully.

CanToo, can I just say again how proud I am of you. Both you and Porquoi have come so very far already from your initial posts. Just think where you'll be in a few months time with more and more AF days racking up under your belts? The world is your (AF) oyster! Go get 'em.

Irie, WELCOME, to you. It sounds like you have really reached a turning point! Congratulations on getting up the nerve to post here and commit. We look forward to getting to know you and supporting you on your journey to 30 days and beyond. As for false starts, well, as I've said here many times I spent a year trying to string together 30 days and failing but finally something snapped. It sounds like you're at that point now. I hear you though, I am in awe of those who manage to go AF with drinking spouses. (Not giving you an excuse not to succeed there though There are a few here who have similar issues, like Sausage, are you round Sausage, so perhaps they can offer words of wisdom?

Shue, I love these shoes, along with a few other particularly awesome pairs I have (3-inch vintage gold glitter disco platforms anyone?) but they don't get much of a wear because I am SO CRAP at walking in heels I only do it on rare nights when I know I won't have to move too much. I wish you could teach me from afar. I am "petite" so it would really behoove me to get them out more.

[LillyE]

AF day Tuesday Sep 3

Cross-post Turn - nice post. I need to reread that article again when my brain is less foggy; I'm still quite sick.

Speaking of addiction more broadly, out of curiosity, has anyone here had a major addiction *other* than alcohol? For me, alcohol will actually the third drug addiction I've overcome, including nicotine and the major pot habit I had in my teens/20s that I've long since left behind - several years now. I didn't realise it at the time, but I'm fairly sure my drinking - already fairly entrenched - ratcheted up a notch when I quit that. I know it did when I quit smoking - it's what helped bring things to a head for me and bring me here.

I have no family history of drug or alcohol addiction whatsoever but I do seem to be completely wired for addiction. I'm lucky I never developed a serious addiction to any Class A drugs, as there was certainly a period in my partying 20s when I could have. Personally, I think I turned to drugs and alcohol to medicate the anxiety that developed in response to a pretty traumatic childhood (mentally ill mother ? lots of anger and violence ? constantly walking on eggshells), but I'm sure that's not the whole story. Something in my physiology just screams MORE when it comes to mind-altering, numbing substances.

Not making any specific point here, just wondering if people have experiences with breaking addictions other than Al?

[CanToo]

AF day Tuesday Sep 3

Ah yes Lilly.

1. 12 - Started smoking

2. 13 - Stared drinking what was in the house (Jamaica rum)

3. 16 - 18 Started smoking pot (laced with angel dust), hash, hash oil, acid and gravel and pills. Lots of pills. And beer. Anything to take me out of my reality

4. 19 - any kind of 'upper' to help me lose the weight gained by drinking

Then I stopped partying and got down to business at school. But I did it on my own and it didn't last. My 20's and 30's were fun money plus youth - I don't remember events that others do.

5. At 35 began body building and got into stuff that goes with that. BUT not steroids - nothing that couldn't be bought on the Internet. Never anything in a needle. Then I stared running. Running seems to be safe. I spent 4 years in the gym and running.

6. At 39 I began drinking loads. Again to hide my loneliness. And then ended up on anti-depressants for 4 years

7. At 43 I gained a healthy addiction to an organized team sport for 4 years. Then I got hurt. My body failed me. Well you can guess where I ended up spending my time next.... Back to drinking.

Final chapter - age 48 looking to become addicted to a healthy full life without AL and stimulants.



Oh Lilly the things I no longer thought about.

[kuya]

AF day Tuesday Sep 3

LillyE;1372968 wrote: Kia ora Kuya, happy to see a fellow Kiwi here!

CONGRATULATIONS ON 3 DAYS!!

Hey Lilly ... Went to sleep and just saw this now. I am an emigrated Pom, been here 10 years. Got off the plane and felt like I had come home! (sorry fellow poms, but NZ is tooooo beautiful).
Unfortunately I brought me with me so the devil crossed the world on my back! LOL

I love NZ and although the drinking culture is there it is not bingey and dangerous like London.

Anyway day 4 is good, and I know from last time in 2011 when i did 9 weeks (and got tripped up by xmas,and which was my first AF period in 23 years) that it gets better from here. I know the mistake I made the last time so am pretty confident I will stay the distance this time.

It is fascinating reading posts and realizing how complex this problem is. I drank at home alone from 12 - 18 units nightly for all those years and was terrified to stop because of all the stuff I had read about withdrawal etc. I work 6 days a week so I told myself I did not dare stop because I was self employed and a single mum.

But I started taking supplements 12 years ago and when I started feeling ill last year I stopped cold turkey and I had NO withdrawals except a bit of fatigue and feeling out of body for about a week. I joined MWO after my last slip but it took til last week to climb back on the wagon.

I really value being in this forum, I realize how lucky I am to be able to stop with relative ease after such a long 'career' and hope I can contribute as well as benefit from being here.

[porqoui]

AF day Tuesday Sep 3

Just popping in to say :wow3: What a thread! I definately have my Positive "P" back Mick!

Will post all my :welcome:'s and :thanks:'s while having morning coffee with everyone.

Have a good night all. PPQ

[Kaslo]

AF day Tuesday Sep 3

Thanks to Caysea for bringing the perspective of this sites history into this discussion. I welcome all the new people on here too. Its great to see.

Can I explain a bit more about why I said what I said? Here is the thing, I read a tonne, like a lot of us, of books on addiction, and I learned that the failure or recidivism rate is something like 95%. Its huge. There are several phases to kicking booze, and each of us is different the first few months are very different from say 60 days on. In the first few months, people need a ton of gentle support. That is what Mick is talking about. If a recently sober person fails, in general, I think they need encouragement. NOT an arse kicking.

However, after 60 days if you fail its usually because you are convincing yourself its ok to drink, after all. When you know full well you cant.

After a year or so, the reality of a healthy life sets in and there is less likelyhood of failure and also much greater honesty with ourselves and others.

Believe it or not, its not easy for me to do this. Much easier to say oh too bad so sad, poor thing, my sympathies, etc. To be confrontational and angular about recidivism is NOT popular, or fun, or cute or attractive. It does not make me anyones FRIEND. (However, it was gratifying to see a few people in here talking about tough love.)

So here is the deal.... I would never have said that stuff to TDN, Det or Shue if they had only 10 to 30 days and were really in delicate shape. No way! But they are not < 30 days. All three have had a long period of time to address this condition of alcoholism and to build up the defence of sobriety against "stinkin' thinkin". Thats where MWO daily thread people call bullshit. I did it then, and I would do it again. Because people like M3, Pap, Lav, Greenie and others have done that for me. And thanks again btw.

A few of you wrote some not so carefully veiled complaints about my approach, and thats ok, because if you in the first stages, you are right I should not say stuff like what I said to you. (I was speaking ONLY to the recidivists).

Everyone has a seperate journey, as Greenie so wisely told me once long ago. And each one is a little different.

So those of you still with me here....Why should I care? Someone PMd me just now saying they shouldnt care, but they do. I DO care. I lost a few relatives to this condition / disease, including someone very recently, and it is NOT a beautiful peaceful death, its a bloody nightmare. And dont think it wont happen to YOU, because the medical system is choked with people dying of diseases related to drinking. US places death from drinking at number 3, after heart disease and cancer, and I would argue that heart disease and cancer are linked to drinking as well. So if SHUE who is brilliant and a real gem of a person can be saved because I call her out and ask her to examine the truth about her alcoholism than I have done the right thing. If Det reads this and agrees that he has to find out why he fails, because mostly he completely lives the 100 percent healthy trip.

I guess my question is please examine WHAT is really bugging you to drink again. I have done the right thing, but I did want to reassure you all that the shite kicking is reserved for people who need it. If a bunch of you early quitters read this, and think I am a first class pain in the astilbe, well remember where you read it first because when you get to a 6 months or a year you may find you have conveniently forgotten why you cant drink. Thats the self delusion phase. Its deadly. It messed up Sausages beautiful first time recovery. I think almost all of us have had this struggle, myself included.

So thats my thoughts for the day, for what its worth. So yeah Mick, the cheering section works great for a while. Watch what is ahead in the road, tho.

Kas