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**RunningCourage** · January 21, 2013, 01:58 AM

af day Mon 21 Jan

Quick pop in,

Cat, you OK?

Right, up n early and about to head off to breakfast before heading out into the snow to teach at the posh skool. Was kinda hoping for WAY more snow so as I could have one day off. But that's my fault that the one day off i do have i decide to go hiking up a hill. Blondie - the cobbler's only an hour form me. Awesome wee craggy mountain that is! Passed it yesterday in the car and it is AMAZING to see with the snow lying on it.

TT - thanks for setting up the pitch for Mick and glad you enjoyed a good walk with your daughter. Not worrying that AL 'tainted' the walk as that's not what i remember about it - viewing cobbler in the snow and the wind and wearing me crampons(!) stick more in the memory. BUT, am gonna do some research into B12 as I'm aware of tiredness still a little bit. It could be lack of sleep, but reading a conversation between KY and Molls, I think i'll look into B12... B12 - Sounds like a US fighterjet :H

Right - offski to the poshski skool....

**Mick** · January 21, 2013, 03:43 AM

af day Mon 21 Jan

Mornin all...and how are we to today? Does if feel like an up and at em day..or more of a mundane Monday?Many years ago on telly over here there used to be a guy on telly called Mr Motivator...his job was to get the population of Britain ,who in the main had just rolled out of their pits, doing some exercise..defo not me but the ethos is the same ...so lets go get that brain focussed .....no alcohol!!!!
Well we have got about 4/5 inches of snow here....this is when we usually get snowed in! the eather was supposed to change and the snow come the other way...yeh right!!!so far thee have been no cars up or down here...got to take Julie to work,so reckon I will be first!

Right tea and coffee on the go......

Morning pitcher ...henceforth new name!!! how are you today? my suggestion ...live as you wish....have you ever thought about liver tests? The liver is one of the most efficient self healing organs provided you give it the chance..and you have done that..no harm in planning ,but at the same time do we not say one day at a time? so enjoy life

Cantoo, Cantoo woo hoo well done you...is this your first holiday since you quit?well done..brill..you have done ace...special green tea for you..glad yuou are enjoying your holiday

Morning Kuya..how are you today mate?you know...I thought I was having a naughty dream...obviously I wasnt ..twas you in the pool :H
Same as you...re holidays...my place is usually the Canaries /Croatia or somewhere for what we call chill holidays...but I like seeing mad places too, but they arent really relaxing holidays, but just zooming about seeing everything.What you up to today?

Morning Cinders, how are you today?...has this all changed since you first started? if so in what way? or is it same but different people? Pardon me if I am out of order here...but you joined in 07 ...and yet you use the phrase look forward to be an lt again...take it then you slipped?Is there anything you can tell us ,how what why?not being nosey, but just looking from a "lessons learned" point of view.

Morning blondie..........another excuse for a piss up..celebrating the bard??? never..oh and by the way we are not expats... rather missionaries sent out to spread the Scottish word :H:H..convinced? How are you?How is the jolly going? hope you are enjoying it.

Morning Lav and how are you today?Coffee here for you No I didnt know too much about the Mason Dixon line...I do now tho.Its quite interesting to think that in historical terms its relatively new..initiated by King Charles the 2nd..the late 1600 s, laid pretty dormant until roughly the 1760s..thats only 352 years.
As for the lady with the goats..not as crazy as it sounds.I remember going to a meeting in one place that I worked in.They were going to get llamas to eat all the vegetation down

Morning PPPQP...how are you today?Wow glad the legal things will be sorted out in one day for you..big weight off your mind.So basically you have been left to get on with the garden..keep you busy for a while then...oh and heres a refill

Mornin pretty pink...yep you know who you are...how are things with you today?hope the how to annoys cheered your friend up..have a great day.

Hiya Kas ..and how are you today?What are you up to nowadays? Thats def something we have in common ..I am well into history..would probably say early British in the main, Celtic, Roman ,Saxon Viking..

Morning Pauly how are you? what you up to today? anything?

Rabsy ..mornin ,on the way to the pawsh skool now ..likes the pics mate very good.. substitute snow for stairs and it looks like moi!!!

Morning SL..how are you today?Well did you get all the date details?bet you did! happy ML day to you.,.....and also on your 3 weeks ...brill.
here you are the translation

Fair and full is your honest, jolly face,
Great chieftain of the sausage race!
Above them all you take your place,
Stomach, tripe, or intestines:
Well are you worthy of a grace
As long as my arm.

The groaning trencher there you fill,
Your buttocks like a distant hill,
Your pin would help to mend a mill
In time of need,
While through your pores the dews distill
Like amber bead.

His knife see rustic Labour wipe,
And cut you up with ready slight,
Trenching your gushing entrails bright,
Like any ditch;
And then, O what a glorious sight,
Warm steaming, rich!

Then spoon for spoon, the stretch and strive:
Devil take the hindmost, on they drive,
Till all their well swollen bellies by-and-by
Are bent like drums;
Then old head of the table, most like to burst,
'The grace!' hums.

Is there that over his French ragout,
Or olio that would sicken a sow,
Or fricassee would make her vomit
With perfect disgust,
Looks down with sneering, scornful view
On such a dinner?

Poor devil! see him over his trash,
As feeble as a withered rush,
His thin legs a good whip-lash,
His fist a nut;
Through bloody flood or field to dash,
O how unfit.

But mark the Rustic, haggis-fed,
The trembling earth resounds his tread,
Clap in his ample fist a blade,
He'll make it whistle;
And legs, and arms, and heads will cut off
Like the heads of thistles.

You powers, who make mankind your care,
And dish them out their bill of fare,
Old Scotland wants no watery stuff,
That splashes in small wooden dishes;
But if you wish her grateful prayer,
Give her [Scotland] a Haggis!

Have a great day

right time to go..clear the car and see what happens..have a great day.

The ambitious coach of a girls track team gives the squad steroids. The team?s performance soars. They win the county and state championship until one day they are favored to win nationals easily. Penelope, a sixteen-year-old hurdler visits her coach and says,
?Coach, I have a problem. Hair is starting to grow on my chest.?
?What!? the coach says in a panic, ?How far down does it go??
She replies, ?Down to my balls. That?s something else I want to talk to you about.?

Sitting on the side of the highway waiting to catch speeding drivers, a State Police Officer sees a car puttering along at 22 MPH. He thinks to himself, ?This driver is just as dangerous as a speeder!? So he turns on his lights and pulls the driver over.
Approaching the car, he notices that there are five old ladies ? two in the front seat and three in the back ? eyes wide and white as ghosts.
The driver, obviously confused, says to him, ?Officer, I don?t understand, I was doing exactly the speed limit! What seems to be the problem??
?Ma?am,? the officer replies, ?You weren?t speeding, but you should know that driving slower than the speed limit can also be a danger to other drivers.?
?Slower than the speed limit?? she asked. No sir, I was doing the speed limit exactly? Twenty-Two miles an hour!? the old woman says a bit proudly. The State Police officer, trying to contain a chuckle explains to her that ?22″ was the route number, not the speed limit. A bit embarrassed, the woman grinned and thanked the officer for pointing out her error.
?But before I let you go, Ma?am, I have to ask? Is everyone in this car ok? These women seem awfully shaken and they haven?t muttered a single peep this whole time.? the officer asks.
?Oh, they?ll be alright in a minute officer. We just got off Route 119.?

A man walks into a drug store with his 8-year-old son. They happen to walk by the condom display, and the boy asks, ?What are these, Dad??
The man matter-of-factly replies, ?Those are called condoms, son. Men use them to have safe s*x.?
?Oh I see,? replied the boys pensively. ?Yes, I?ve heard of that in health class at school.?
He looks over the display and picks up a package of three and asks, ?Why are there three in this package.?
The dad replies, ?Those are for high-school boys. One for Friday, one for Saturday, and one for Sunday.?
?Cool!? says the boy. He notices a pack of six and asks ?Then who are these for??
?Those are for college men,? the dad answers, ?Two for Friday, two for Saturday, and two for Sunday.?
?WOW!? exclaimed the boy. ?Then who uses these?? he asks, picking up a 12-pack.
With a sigh, the dad replied, ?Those are for married men. One for January, one for February, one for March.?

There was once a very prim and proper older lady who had a problem with passing gas. Since she came from a generation when people didn?t even talk about this kind of problem it took a long time for her to seek help. Finally, however, she was persuaded to consult her family doctor.
After she filled out all the proper forms and had waited about 20 minutes in the waiting room the doctor called her into his office, leaned back in his chair, folded his hands into a steeple and asked her how he could help.
?Doctor,? she said, ?I have a very bad gas problem.?
?A gas problem?? replied the doctor.
?Yes. Yesterday afternoon, I had lunch with the Secretary of State and his wife and had six, um, er, ahhh?silent gas emissions. Last night, I had dinner with the governor and his wife and had (BLUSH) four silent gas emissions. Then, while sitting in your waiting room I had five silent gas emissions! Doctor, you?ve got to help me! What can we do??
?Well,? said the doctor thoughtfully, ?I think the first thing we?re going to do is give you a hearing test.?

A little old lady, well into her eighties, slowly enters the front door of an erotic s*x shop. Obviously very unstable on her feet, she shakily hobbles the few feet across the store to the counter.
Finally arriving at the counter and grabbing it for support, she asks the sales clerk: ?Ddddooo youuuu hhhave viiiibbbrraaatoorrss
The clerk, politely trying not to burst out laughing, replies: ?Yes we do have vibrators Actually we carry many models.?
The old woman then asks: ?Dddddoooo yyyouuuu hhhave aaa pppinkk one, tttenn inchessss lllong aaandd aabboutt tttwoo inchesss thththiiickkk??
The clerk responds, ?Yes we do?.
?Ccccccannnn yyyyouuuu tttelll mmmmeeee howwww ttttoooo ttturrrnnn ttthe ffuucccckkkkinggg ttthingggg offffff??

At random times in a conversation, say "Hi," "Hello Sir, how are you?" or "Have a good day, thank you."
At the laundromat, use one dryer for each of your socks.
Bark like a dog whenever anyone says the word "the."
Be "in conference" all the time.
Before exiting the elevator, push all the buttons.
Begin all your sentences with "Ohh la la!"
Block the entrances of elevators, buses, and subways.
Bring 15 things into the dressing room.
Bring a portable CD player to a concert and listen the CD because you insist that it is "Just better quality"
Buy goldfish and ask the clerk if they come with chips.
Buy it, wear it, return it.
Buy large quantities of mint dental floss just to lick the flavor off.
Call every girl you know "dude".
Call every pager number you know and leave the number for your local McDonalds.
Call everyone a communist.
Call into work and tell them you have something better to do today.br />Call other people "Champ" or "Tiger.". Refer to yourself as "Coach."
Call someone and ask for someone that you know is not there then hang up. Call again about a half hour latter and ask for the same person then hang up again. Wait another half hour and call again and ask for that person again and then hang up again and wait a hour and call the same number and say that you are the person that you have been calling for and ask if you had any messages.
Call the operator. When asked, "Can I help you?" reply, "No thanks, just browsing."
Call your neighbors collect.
Change Channels five minutes before the end of every show.
Change your name to "John Aaaaasmith" for the great glory of being first in the phone book. Claim it's a Hawaiian name, and demand that people pronounce each "a."
Chew on pens/pncils that you've borrowed.
Claim that you must always wear a bicycle helmet as part of your "astronaut training."

**kuya** · January 21, 2013, 04:24 AM

af day Mon 21 Jan

Morning All,

Lovely day, but very busy which is good but knackered tonight!

No time to exercise today, and forgot the hose was on in the pool last night and gawd knows how much that'll cost.
Funny I used to think everything like that was down to drinking but I seem more forgetful now than I was.....still brain fog I reckon.

Arsey will have a few words on Stella thread when I have had a rest.

Laters

**Cinders** · January 21, 2013, 07:03 AM

af day Mon 21 Jan

Good morning friends,

Yesterday I realized that I was letting my mind start to slip back into its old thinking and letting thoughts of al start to call me. I ended up brushing them away, snuggling down with hubby and dog on the bed and watched football (US version) in the afternoon and evening.

I woke up this morning, early as usual, and am ready to take on today.

Mick wrote:

Morning Cinders, how are you today?...has this all changed since you first started? if so in what way? or is it same but different people? Pardon me if I am out of order here...but you joined in 07 ...and yet you use the phrase look forward to be an lt again...take it then you slipped?Is there anything you can tell us ,how what why?not being nosey, but just looking from a "lessons learned" point of view.

I am good today, Mick. Thank you. Yes, this site has changed very much, and in many ways for the better and in some ways for the worse. It was a smaller community, Roberta would actually come around and join in, etc. Over time, more and more people joined, Naltrexone and Baclofen became a stronger focus than the original Topamax. There is more research going on nowadays, which IMHO is fantastic.

Slipped does not describe me, Mick. I have only been sober for long periods a few times since joining. I have been to rehab three times and then done several 30 day periods but I have never truly committed to quitting.

A friend, Zenstyle, and I talk a bit on the phone. She and I both are frustrated that so many join here and just seem to "get it" and she and I just don't seem to. (She is in rehab as I type this and I am praying mightily that she comes out of rehab ready to stay sober. She is a dear friend and I care very much about her welfare.)

We have lost a few members here. Notably, one of the dearest was a man we called "Bear." After two years of hard fought for sobriety, he was killed by a hit and run drunk on his way home from an AA meeting. Irony. However, he always told me to never give up giving up. And I often remember his kindness, always. I tear up even as I am typing this.

We lost one to suicide. Mary Ann.

We lost another one not talked about here but she ended up in a nursing home due to brain damage from drinking.

In the beginning, most people joined MWO to try to moderate. Over time, that has changed. Some still do and some are successful!! But the prevailing attitude here is AF. Why? Because the majority of us cannot moderate. This has become so apparent year after year. Unfortunately, there is often discord between those who know they must abstain and those who come on here to learn to moderate. This upsets me quite a bit. This website was designed for moderation. Even though Roberta ended up having to go AF herself, that does not negate the intent of this website.

Then comes the "I hate AA" posts (which is okay to say but not okay to tell people who go to AA that they are wrong) and those cause discord.

Then we have the Baclofen is the only way, or Naltrexone is the only way, or Topamax is the only way, causing discord.

Then we have the AA is the only way.

People tend to forget that this website is named My Way Out not My Way Out is Your Way Out.

Chat used to be used often, today it seems mostly quiet.

In terms of "Lessons Learned," Mick, I can tell you this. I believe I cannot get and stay sober until I am truly ready to give up the dream of moderation. I believe strongly that those who learn to moderate are not alcoholics but alcohol abusers. From the outside it looks the same, from the inside it is completely different. Of course, this is my opinion only.

I also know that many of my old friends who are still here are incredibly supportive despite my many failures at getting sober. Often they are tough on me but that is fine, it is done with care and concern.

The mathematician and logical person inside of me has tried all the medications looking for a logical cure. I can't use any of them. I go into 2013 with the realization that I am a late stage alcoholic and if I do not get and stay sober, I will die. It is my choice.

So, I am doing as Chief and xTexan and many of the old timers who are no longer here used to say, just brush the beast aside and don't get into the ring with him, because he will always win.

Sorry for the long winded response. But, you asked. :H:H

I am looking forward to being on this thread with all of you and being sober.

Love,
Cindi

**Mick** · January 21, 2013, 07:26 AM

af day Mon 21 Jan

Cindi...I asked you if you could help and give your "story"for want of better words...thank you very much for what you have done..I havent really perused it in great detail, but a couple of things stick out already

The title "my way out" as you say is not everyones way out...but somewhere in each story or strategy there will be something that we can use

Secondly you say quote ( because you put it better than me) I believe I cannot get and stay sober until I am truly ready to give up the dream of moderation.

I totally agree with you...most of us are here because we dont abuse alcohol...rather the other way around..we have let it abuse us to the extent only one drink does not and would not exist!!!

I think Zenny is back today ..though not sure

Lastly...from the bottom of my heart I hope you are successful this year...stick with it...we can do it

thank you

**nurdl** · January 21, 2013, 08:14 AM

af day Mon 21 Jan

morning all. So much to start with I should have made notes. Cinders, thank you for your post. We look forward to hearing from Zenny again if that works.
Thanks for the note Mick and... blush. I woke up thinking, ya know, I'm not so bad for a ummm-hmm-thing year old. lol
Morning Tree and RC!
Kuya - hope you have a great day.
The How to Annoy, has been a great hit. It's tough to be the one to get the text messages from someone on the edge but humor has proven to be a terrific way to connect. Keep your fingers crossed for me as I navigate another day with this lovely and very depressed person.
No reason to drink as I have to keep my wits about me today.
best to all
~n
oh... by the way! I think Patrick is our silent defender of the sober. He just keeps rocking on. Just something I noticed.

**Lavande** · January 21, 2013, 08:22 AM

af day Mon 21 Jan

Good morning Abbers!

Hope everyone is having a wonderful AF Monday!
I plan to do the same. After my morning exercise & animals chores are done I am going out with my daughter & grandaughter for lunch & some shopping for their birthdays

TT, of all the farm animals on earth I choose to keep chickens only - mainly because I'm not afraid of them :H

RC, we can pump you up with B12. All the old ladies used to go to the doctor's office for a monthly shot back in the old days just to keep them going

Mick & Kuya, hope you are behaving yourselves

Cindi, I had that hope for moderation when I first started MWO. But as I reached my 30 AF day mark I just knew that dream had to go. Being honest with myself was the key for me. I hope you stay well & find the success you want!

Have a great AF Monday one & all!
Lav

**cpn1004** · January 21, 2013, 08:40 AM

af day Mon 21 Jan

Cindy,
What a great reply! You captured my experience here too. I came to this sight to moderate. Everything I read about moderation suggested or demanded at least 30 days sober then moderation. Hell, I could not get 10 days AF, so moderation did not work for me.

I got sober with AA. It works for me. However there are many ways to get sober. I am writing this after 14 days on the road without an AA meeting. I was working in Puerto Rico and Costa Rica staying in hotels with the loaded mini-bar. No temptation to drink, now that is some kind of miracle.

**Hippyman** · January 21, 2013, 08:41 AM

af day Mon 21 Jan

Cindi, I know I can never drink and somehow I have come to peace with that fact. When I think about it, what is good about drinking alcohol anyway? Now that you've made that decision I'm sure you can set your goal and reach it. My goal is to learn how to live sober for the rest of my life! Thank you for sharing with us!

**paulywogg** · January 21, 2013, 08:59 AM

af day Mon 21 Jan

awesome post cindi! you guys have a great monday

**porqoui** · January 21, 2013, 09:22 AM

af day Mon 21 Jan

Good Morning All

TT...thanks for the kickoff. I think I know the game you're talking about, I didn't understand it either.

RC..I upped my B12 intake as well after reading Molls & KY's conversation.

Mick...thanks for the refill. Yup I'll be glad when it's all over and done.

KY...did you not end up flooding everything? Hope you get some rest.

Cinders...hi, great post. It's interesting to hear what this site was like before I found it.

Nurdl...fingers crossed but I'm sure you'll navigate just fine. You are so strong.

Lav...enjoy your shopping and I think YB should pay for lunch as well.

CPN...I found I need the face to face of AA as well.

Hipster...from all I've read, sounds like you've got a good start on living sober.

Pauly...hi, you have a great Monday as well.

Having a slow start this morning, been up forever, but did have a decent sleep last night.

Wishing everyone a Great AF Monday...

PPQP

**Kaslo** · January 21, 2013, 12:00 PM

af day Mon 21 Jan

Good morning, Abbers. Thanks to TT and Mick and RC for starting us up from the other side of the wha-rald. My mother was a midLothian, so I know what its like to be turned away with an insubstantial haggis. Perhaps this was the main reason for my feelings of general inadequacy. Who authored that Mick?

My hellos to all here, but especially Cindi, with a huge THANK YOU for writing a bit about the history of the MWO site. The way its evolved recently has been quite a transformation. Two years ago it was mostly a discussion on how much better life is without alcohol.

Mick, as you asked, I am fine as frogs hair. I have been out with my camera on Saturday with Mr Kaslo, and that was lovely, then I did my volunteer ski hut thing yesterday at the ski track for cross country skiing here. So I got to meet all the skiers that I never really see as they whoosh past me in a cloud of powder. And extract money from visitors come for a ski . I sold four memberships, and collected 200+ dollars in trail fees from non members. I met a lovely couple from a nearby city who have a restaurant and are just as lonely as I am out here in the middle of no where. I met a beautiful young man and woman from Switzerland who had come for the first time to the west Kootenays to ski, planning to ski only our tracks, but found themselves in a huge powder extravaganza with ski hills and trails and frozen lakes every where, and are now into month 2 here when it was only supposed to be 3 days. We have lots of people like that here. Stopped in 18 years ago, never left.

So all you folks who havent read Cinders post all the way through, go back and read it thoroughly if you can. Who am I to give orders you say? Well, here is the thing, there is a message in there for all of us.

I am thinking of each and every one of you today, and hope you will all find a way out. I urge peeps to read back to their earlier posts, and if they can the posts of their friends and their enemies, if they have them. Read and learn. Because a transition takes place in sobriety. Its like growing up, or being born, or giving birth, or hiking up an extremely steep and perilous rock strewn path.

Be patient with yourself and others.

Love, Peace

kas

**Cinders** · January 21, 2013, 02:36 PM

af day Mon 21 Jan

cpn1004;1447691 wrote: Cindy,
What a great reply! You captured my experience here too. I came to this sight to moderate. Everything I read about moderation suggested or demanded at least 30 days sober then moderation. Hell, I could not get 10 days AF, so moderation did not work for me.

I got sober with AA. It works for me. However there are many ways to get sober. I am writing this after 14 days on the road without an AA meeting. I was working in Puerto Rico and Costa Rica staying in hotels with the loaded mini-bar. No temptation to drink, now that is some kind of miracle.

It is so good to hear from you, Phil. :-)

I am glad to see you are still sober and still happy.

Love,
Cindi

**merry** · January 21, 2013, 03:40 PM

af day Mon 21 Jan

quiet agree with you hippyman
I need to make that my goal also
fisrt thou af jan 3 weeks done

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