Announcement

**Cinders** · February 4, 2013, 03:24 PM

af day Tues 5 Feb

This is from Kaslo,

She does not feel comfortable with me repeating it but I do.

She has quite a handhold upon those who are DYING from this disease. And there are quite a few.

Okay, here is the link. She gets it. If you don't, please do not respond.

Love,
Cindi

As for failing, after being sober, the people that fail all seem to have a couple of things in common...

1. They have not really given up the possibility at the very back of their minds that they can have alcohol again. Its always there, if they are really honest with themselves about it. They may profess otherwise. But its there.

2. They are often deeply engaged in things, almost over the top about them, like an addiction but without the substance... this gets old fast, and relapse is always waiting for them.

3. They remain in a state of arrested development.

4. They cant get past the initially un-fulfilling, terrifying boredom of being sober for ever. This is a temporary state, but it can be persistent for up to two years or more, and very few people are honest about how disappointing it can seem. This is another residual effect of alcohol over consumption. It goes away.

5. They dont take depression seriously enough when it starts to seep in and try to tough it out or ignore it and hope it will go away. They dont understand its biochemical.

6. They persist in calling alcohol deadly or poisonous, when it is only harmful in the dosages that are necessary to make it an addictive substance. It is none of those things. its just a fluid in a jar. Its what is inside of us that responds to it in a way that we cant understand. Once we part ways with it and learn its just a fluid in a jar, we can begin to completely forget about it. This is why hanging out on MWO is often recognized by some ex alcoholics as potentially harmful to them. All that chatter about it every day, awakens too many brain cells that have been hard wired to it. So it becomes necessary to quit both AL and MWO in order to stay sober. This leads back to number one. its an endless cycle. You can break it Cindi, you really can.

I hope you dont mind me posting this for you, its part of a short piece I am writing. K Have a great day, if I can do it, you can do it. For sure.

kas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinders

I always read your posts. You have a very significant time sober and just as in AA, they "suggest" you listen to those who have sober time. Not those who have a little sober time. :-)

However, I also read your post this morning from a perspective of someone who was in that kind of world.

I determined from the get-go, I would never lie to a client, no matter how uncomfortable it was.

I have had to tell clients that IBM sold them a "bill of goods" and they should get their money back. Salesmen only have access to what is posted on the internal website, which occasionally has nothing to do with reality. I was never, ever, hurt professionally because of that.

IBM used to be a company that had an ethic.

I left them when I was working for a client and I realized I was being asked to implement something for the client that would work in theory, but I knew it would not work in reality. Once I was told by my manager that I had to make it go, I left.

This is not trivial. I can't go into details because if you cut and paste this and what I fear happens, I will be screwed.

Luckily, I seldom ran into the "woman" thing. I often did at the outset, but once the clients and the IBMers who needed my help dealt with me for an hour or so, they realized this "little, chubby, middle-aged woman" knows more than I will ever forget, they trusted me.

Even the 30 something men who would have preferred another 30 something man or even better another 20 something woman. I have been wined and dined by some really good looking guys!! LOL

Because I came in, assessed, told the truth, even though it hurt, and helped the clients achieve what they needed.

Two years ago, Kas, I worked 1789 hours from Jan 1 to Jun 1. Can you imagine? And then I asked for some time "on the bench" and was told "no, we need you here..."

That is another thing that made me quit.

However, I digress. What you did was follow your ethics and the truth. Few on this board can even begin to understand what you did. I do. I know that sometimes it has to come from the bootstraps up but right is right and wrong is wrong. You did right.

I post some some worst case scenarios for people hoping that those who think, "I've got this beat" recognize that this is a life long journey. I don't think any of them "get it." Caysea, you, Lav do. The others want to ignore what I am saying.

No one even begins to understand the Det issue and how sad this is. Det was sober for a long, long time. He has also tripped up many times. He was sober cumulatively more than the "newbies" on the AF thread together. I doubt if they even would get that.

I am glad you are on the AF thread. You and Lav are a constant in my life right now. I appreciate your efforts. I do not want to die like your friend did. I will die but I don't want to die that way.

**Cinders** · February 4, 2013, 03:31 PM

af day Tues 5 Feb

I posted this because, one, I have someone who is watching me and wanting to make my posts public, and Two, I do not care. They can make it public. (They already have via my email.)

However, I do think what Kalso posts is important. She is trying to make sure that those of us who are suffering from this do not end up where her beloved friend did." This is not a trivial post.

Love to all,
Cindi

**Mick** · February 4, 2013, 04:46 PM

af day Tues 5 Feb

tt..stop eating those sweets ..there is obviously too many e numbers in them :H:H:H

**blondie** · February 4, 2013, 11:05 PM

af day Tues 5 Feb

Morning

Cindi - hope you're OK; there's been a couple of people's privacy compromised here recently.

Hi Mick - weren't you just on hols? Is this extravagant lifestyle linked to your early Sunday morning jaunts? :H

TT has Mick given you a good deal on his joke book whilst he's away? (Being the canny lad he is!)

RC - are you planning a trip downunder? Would be easy with those extended breaks and generous salaries teaching is reknown for. (sorry for the prepositional ending

)

Have a fun night/day, abbers

**Mick** · February 5, 2013, 03:13 AM

af day Tues 5 Feb

Morning all...and how are we today on this fine morning?It snowed here again lat night and stuck, so there is about 2 inches of snow at the moment ,with the promise of more to come..poor little plants in the garden had just started to bud through,,,and now

Tea and coffee available to all and
I was reading a post yesterday, and again it talks about, the number of people that have "stumbled" across this site by accident.Taking the political and financial implications away ,its a wonder that no one has thought about using this site as a direct referral as part of a treatment plan,because it certainly works ..any of you doctors out there thought about it?

Morning tree ..how are you today? got rid of your giddy sweets have you?:H Instead of getting out of your jammies to go to work, just buy a onesy,,,then you could live in them!!!

Morning blondey..and how are you? nope you are wrong..last holiday was nearly 2 months ago!!!!These are what we call short haul breaks..away for a week in the sun..now if I had your weather wouldnt bother with them..apart from that I do like travelling.No the early morning jaunts arent linked ..apart from the fact that I travel a lot.. last Sunday ,drove 230 miles..about 370 ks..anyway have a great day...froom a on whinging Jock !!!

Morning Rabsy..how are you today? back to reality today and teaching the peasants are we?excellent ..dont teach them too much ..we need to keep those chaps where they should be in life..that sounds strange ..but it was actually a belief at one stage..end of convo ..no politics..you hae a guid wan neeb..hows that for a dialectic mixture? cya

Oh hello ..our very own film star in NZ ..and how are you today?still willing to hob nob with the masses now that you are getting yer name in lights?Treaty of Waitangi day?? hmm another excuse for doing nowt..was going to say that from what I have heard the indigenous peoples there dont really need too much of an excuse to do that,but I cant really...my sources are biased!!
So firstly on set with chickens..step 2 is goin to be...yep youve guessed it ..the fame and glitz of Coronation Street and Emmerdale......Who knows ,down there hop skip and a jump and youll be on the set of home and away and neighbours!!!!Have a great day mate...remember me when you are famous!!!!

Mornin Lav and how is your world today?Yep send Stella the star to co-host with Kuya..lets see who gets the speaking part!! what are you up to today? If you are finished with that snow plough can you send it over? problem we have got is one part of the hill is a long gradient so cars cant get any traction on it..all the neighbours are walking down this morning..I have been tasked with taking madam to work today..so another brew time now ..one for you too?

Morning YAH...your post...Mick, I'll miss you when you're gone..Jeez sounds a bit final that one..only going for a holiday hopefully!!!:H how are you today?wow that is some background...what we call Heinz background..go on work it out out..Its interesting that your dad is German too...just being nosey now, but how did they meet? A lot over here met via the war when the German soldiers became prisoners and liked it so much when the war ended they stayed..I dont know a single thing about you so that is all guesswork!!
Glad you never derailed ..well done dealing with the cravings.

Hiya Cat...and how is your week panning out? Drinking dreams..and thats all they are ..dreams..as you say protect your quit...hope your day is really positive for you

Morning SL..how are things with you today? Glad you are writing things down ..it really does make more sense when you look at it in black and white doesnt it? Just keep doing it..
Dont know too much about bicycles..menstrual or otherwise :H, but imo you need to be careful that you dont use that as the umbrella reason and think oh well thats why it is.. I think you need to deal with the drink issue and others on an individual basis and be careful not to generalise and lump them all together...You can do it this time ..you know you can ..thinking of you

Morning Cinders ,how are you today? ok I hope..couldnt quite get the hang of your post...I will need to re-read it again..have I missed something somewhere along the line?
What are you up to today? any plans laid out or que sera? whatever have a great day.

right peeps ..off to shovel snow now take care and have a great day..

There was a loser who couldn?t get a date. He went to a bar and asked this one guy how to get a date. The guy said, ?It?s simple. I just say, I?m a lawyer.?So the guy went up to a pretty woman and asked her out. After she said ?No,? he told her that it was probably a good thing because he had a case early in the morning.She said, ?Oh!!!! Your a lawyer??He said, ?Why,? Yes I am!?So they went to his place and when they were in bed, screwing, he started to laugh to himself. When she asked what was so funny, he answered,?Well, I?ve only been a lawyer for 15 minutes, and I?m already screwing someone!?

Recently, a distraught wife went to the local police station, along with her next-door neighbor, to report that her husband was missing. The policeman asked for a description of the missing man.The wife said, ?He is 35 years old, 6-foot 4-inches, has dark eyes, dark wavy hair, an athletic build, weighs 185 pounds, is soft-spoken, and is good to the children.?The next-door neighbor protested, ?Your husband is 5-foot 8-inches, chubby, bald, has a big mouth, and is mean to your children.?The wife replied, ?Yes, but who wants HIM back??
A man was recently flying to New York. He decided to strike up a conversation with his seat mate.?I?ve got a great policeman joke. Would you like to hear it??"I should let you know first that I am a policeman.?"That?s OK. I?ll tell it really slow!?

A State Trooper pulls a car over on a lonely back road and approaches the blonde lady driver.?Ma?am, is there a reason that you?re weaving all over the road??The woman replied:
?Oh officer, thank goodness you?re here!I almost had an accident!I looked up and there was a tree right in front of me.I swerved to the left and there was another tree in front of me.I swerved to the right and there was another tree in front of me!?
Reaching through the side window to the rear view mirror, the officer replied:
-?Ma?am? that?s your air freshener!?

The other day, my friends and I went to this ?Gentleman?s Club.? One of my buddies wanted to impress us, so he pulls out a $10 bill. The ?dancer? came over to us, and my friend licked the $10 and put it on her butt.
Not to be outdone, my other friend pulls out a $50 bill. He calls the girl back over, licks the $50, and puts it on her other cheek. Now the attention is focused on me. What could I do to top that?
I got out my wallet, thought for a minute?..then the banker in me took over. I got out my ATM card, swiped it down her crack, grabbed the 60 bucks, and went home.

A couple went on vacation to a fishing resort up north. The husband liked to fish at the crack of dawn the wife preferred to read. One morning the husband returned after several hours of fishing and decided to take a short nap. The wife decided to take the boat out. She was not familiar with the lake so she rowed out, anchored the boat, and started reading her book. Along comes the sheriff in his boat, pulls up alongside and says,?Good morning, Ma?am. What are you doing??
? Reading my book,? she replies as she thinks to herself, ?Is this guy blind, or what??
?You?re in a restricted fishing area,? he informs her.
?But, Officer, I?m not fishing. Can?t you see that??
?But you have all this equipment, Ma?am. I?ll have to take you in and write you up.?
?If you do that I will charge you with rape,? snaps the irate woman.
?I didn?t even touch you,? grouses the sheriff.
?Yes, that?s true?.but you have all the equipment??

A man moves into a nudist colony. He receives a letter from his mother asking him to send her a current picture. Too embarrassed to let her know that he lives in a nudist colony, he cuts one in half and sends her the top part.
Later he receives another letter asking him to send a picture to his grandmother. The man cuts another picture in half, but accidentally sends the bottom half. He is really worried when he realizes that he sent the wrong part, but then remembers how bad his grandmother?s eyesight is and hopes she won?t notice.
A few weeks later he receives a letter from his grandmother. It says, ? Thank you for the picture. Change your hair style?it makes your nose look too long.?

How To Annoy People On An Airplane

Act like a movie star. ...KUYA
Ask someone for their autograph, pretending that you think they're Tom Cruise or Madonna (This best when the person looks nothing like the movie star in question)
Ask the guy next to you to hold your dentures (senior citizens only)
Ask the person next to you, "Are you in the Witness Protection program too?"
Attempt to promote Hinduism among passengers
Bring a "Word-a-Day" calendar on board with you. Read every single word aloud and attempt to use it in a sentence. Use them all incorrectly. "My, you have a very irate home,' she said governessly."
Bring a cellular phone. Call God. Say, "The reception is much clearer up here...."
Bring a duffel bag packed with pipe cleaners, styrofoam balls, construction paper, etc. Organize a "Kraft Korner". Make a craft likeness of the person sitting next to you. Give yourself an "F".
Bring a microphone and act like Frank Sinatra
Bring your computer keyboard without a monitor. Place it on your lap. Stare into the palm of your hand. Wait. Push the return key a few times. Yell out "Yes! Alright! I told them I didn't need a laptop!" Plug the headphones into your nostril and play Doom.
Call the stewardess "nurse".
Continually offer to share your "Beano".
Decorate. Bring a scatter rug and tiny draperies. Hang a "Home Sweet Home" plaque on the back of the seat in front of you. Invite your fellow passengers in for tea.
Describe your sex life in great detail to the five-year-old next to you
Disco dance in the aisle
Don't use deoderant, then "accidently" stick your armpit in someone's face
During the inflight movie, ask to share headphones with someone
During the meal, loudly explain that on time you ate shark fin soup and proceeded to puke all over the airplane, spewing chunks of shark on the other passengers
Explain how, one time, the plane was crashing and the oxygen masks didn't come out, 'cause they aren't really reliable, and that if the plane was to crash, everyone would die
Fart loudly and act shocked, looking around to see who did it
Fiddle around with the emergency exit, then ask a fellow passenger if he has a crowbar
Get some rub-on tattoos and a leather jacket, pretend that you belong to a biker gang
Give someone a coin, saying "Heads, I detonate the bomb. Tails, I don't"
Go into the bathroom and make rude bodily noises, then come out looking refreshed.
Go into the bathroom, drop your pants, then come out, yelling "We're out of toilet paper! Stewardess!"
Go into the cockpit, ask the pilot in an obnoxious voice "Why do the call it the COCKpit?" then snort as if it's the funniest thing in the world
Go up to someone and ask loudly if they wouldn't mind applying Preporation H to your hemrrhoids.
Hum the Monty Python theme song.
If someone has a bad toupee, whack it off.
Jump up and scream "AAAHHH!! I left the stove on!!"
Lead a bible study session in the back of the plane.
Lead a revolt against the first class passengers.
Lean back in your seat, fold your arms behind your head and exclaim, "Thank God for auto-pilot, eh?"
Mess up your hair, untuck your shirt, basically look crude, and mingle with a first class guy as if you were long-lost friends
Moon passing Delta planes.
No matter what the meal choices are, demand rice-a-roni.
Pick your nose and pat the person next to you.
Pinch the stewardess' butt as she passes.
Pretend you're flying the plane.
Put on a ten foot diameter sombrero and slouch in your seat, whacking everyone on the head.
Remark that perhaps you shouldn't have put superglue in your undies that morning.
Ride carry-on luggage down the aisle, yelling "Yeee-ha!"
Say, "Did you know every time a plane crashes, an angel gets its wings?" Then sigh and stare dreamily into the clouds.
Scratch your butt, then sniff your finger.
Scream and dive under your seat for no apparent reason.
Show off your Batman underwear.
Sing along with the songs on your Walkman.
Snap Polaroids of him or her. Pull out an empty photo album and arrange the pictures inside it. Tuck the album under your jacket and say, "You know, in some cultures they believe that when you take a person's photograph...you own their soul...," while smiling maniacally.
Sneeze, using somebody's sleeve instead of your hand to cover it
Snort when you laugh
Speak in Spelling Bee-eese: "Hello. H-e-l-l-o. Hello. Nice weather we're having isn't it? Weather. W-e-a-t-h-e-r. Weather."
Spill soda "Accidentally" on the person next to you.
Sport a kamikaze helmet and goggles. Speak in a low voice into a hand held tape recorder: "Today's date, December 7th, 1941. I was not able to command my own personal plane but success shall still be ours...."
Start a hot dog stand.
Start singing the Shari Lewis theme, "This is the song that never ends, it just goes on and on my friends, some people started singing it not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because, this is the song that never ends...." Suddenly realize that you can never stop singing. Become very panicky. Scrawl "Help me" on a piece of paper and hand it to the person sitting next to you. Claw at your throat and thrash around in the seat. Never stop singing.
Steal a businessman's laptop, play solitaire on it.
Suddenly remember that you left your iron on. Ask if the pilot would mind going back so you can check.
Switch accents and see if anyone notices.
Tap at the windows, saying "Looks pretty tough" then ask somone if they have a bat you could use to test.
Tell corny jokes and laugh like it's absolutely hilarious, then expect others to do the same 46. Wear a hairpiece and switch it often, seeing if anyone notices
Tell the person next to you your life story, from DNA to that afternoon
Tell your fellow passenger that you just heard the bathrooms were out-of-order. Then pause and say, "Did you know that peanuts are a natural diuretic?" Smile.
Try to lead plane in song "Oh I wish I was an Oscar Myer Weiner"
When there's any nudity, say "Hey! He/she must be real cold!"
When they ask something, pretend that you don't know and you have to go ask someone else. Repeat wtih every question. (ie., "How are you today?" "How can I help you," "what would you like to order")
When two people kiss in the film, belch real loud.
Whip out your kazoo and give first class a special entertainment show.
With a desperate look, ask the stewardess where the bathroom is, then look relieved and say "Nevermind. Do you have any towels?"
With a fellow passenger, Re-enact the disco scene in "Airplane!"
With the person next to you, discuss cannabilism among airline crash passengers on deserted islands.
Yell out, "John Lithgow is on the wing!"

**JackieClaire** · February 5, 2013, 04:34 AM

af day Tues 5 Feb

Just had to pop in and give you all a :hallo:

Mick about doctors. I signed up Sept 2008 but never used it. When I went to to my GP on 7th July 2009 about yet another de-tox. He asked me if I'd ever heard about MWO as he'd been reading about it in one of the newspapers the day before. When I said yes, he told me as all the other things I'd tried hadn't had the greatest success to use it. So I did and I'm still here over 3 and half years lovely AF years later.

I know that my GP's know about MWO, just hoping there's more out there.

**kuya** · February 5, 2013, 05:18 AM

af day Tues 5 Feb

Jeez I am tiring of the endless melodrama. Dunno about alcohol, starting to fear some folks round here are smoking magic mushrooms!

Post a long post of opinion with 'She gets it and if you don't agree don't respond' ........really Cinders?

Well I am going to oblige .....not because I agree with everything that is written, but because I cannot be arsed being drawn into yet another pointless, emotional bunch of hooey.

Hi TT.....I was lucky with menopause and it went fast and easy apart from sleeping badly which was a lifelong problem anyway.

I also had a child late, at 42, keeps us young IMO

I am totally up on all the current music and trends and love it. There's 10 years between each of my 3 children ...... Bred my own babysitters! :H

Mick my dear, it would seem you have been outdone as the joker tonight! :H

I await my appointment with the flock. Will probably be pretty boring.....I have done loads of television work before and it is pretty tedious. Moneys good though.

Hi Blondie ......things not cooling down for you? The weather here the last two days was wet but is set to return to good tomorrow.

Hi to all to come, have a great AF day

**kuya** · February 5, 2013, 05:21 AM

af day Tues 5 Feb

Oooopps Hi Jackie and :welcome: to the daily Amateur Fecking dramatic society ! :H

**Cinders** · February 5, 2013, 07:13 AM

af day Tues 5 Feb

No Kuya, I should not have posted the "please do not respond" part.

But, I am tired of those who attack anyone who posts the untarnished truth.

So, I said that.

But, I welcome any rebuttals that choose to find a "softer and easier" way.

I apologize. This is a forum for those who are trying to get sober through their own means. Not MY means.

Cindi

**Cinders** · February 5, 2013, 07:26 AM

af day Tues 5 Feb

What are you up to today? any plans laid out or que sera? whatever have a great day.

Que sera day here. :-)

Cindi

**kuya** · February 5, 2013, 07:38 AM

af day Tues 5 Feb

Not a poison?

Just liquid in a jar?

What did all those people Kaslo knows die from? ..................Being tickled to death?

**Mick** · February 5, 2013, 07:44 AM

af day Tues 5 Feb

Jacs..hiya..does your doc know how successful you have been? if so, would he be willing to"spread the word "anonomised obviously?

**Lavande** · February 5, 2013, 08:57 AM

af day Tues 5 Feb

Good morning Abbers!

I am enjoying some coffee & about to push myself to get some work done. Expectinga visit from my daughter & grandaughter today - looking forward to that

Kuya. I hope the chickens behave for you. Not all of them have that special Stella persona :H

Cindi, please listen......
You really, really need to let go, relax & focus on yourself & your recovery.
Others here, including Kaslo are entitled to their thinking & their opinions. We all develop opinions based on our education & experience. No one person is always right or always wrong. The longer the time we have away from AL & the clouded thinking it causes the clearer our view becomes. Thoughts & opinions are not stagnant, they will change over time.

Let's keep this forum open, democratic & fear free so that we can all post our individual thoughts & feelings! I don't harrass other MWO members & will not tolerate anyone trying to control me. That's my .02

Have a fabulous AF Tuesday!
Lav

**Catbuddy** · February 5, 2013, 10:08 AM

af day Tues 5 Feb

Morning, abbers.

It's Tuesday, and the sharp ramp up day of our week. I am committed to be present for my job, earning my position and salary every day, and being grateful. That's my resolution for this week.

We're having beautiful weather, here. I took a run last night, and the hills were bathed in a soft rosy sunset glow. It was magical. Some night I will take a photo to post here.

I know one thing is true for me........MWO is fundamental to my sense of community and peace with this new lifestyle. Thank you all for being here; this forum, after all, would just be a web address without us.

Cat

Welcome Guest to My Way Out Forums.

Announcement

af day Tues 5 Feb

af day Tues 5 Feb

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment