WED AF 30 JULY

[treetops]

Greetings fellow absters. Hope you are waking up bright and cheerful ? and if not, at least sober today. Getting towards the end of my Wed and I already posted on the Tuesday thread to let Pauly and Bear know that we are there for them. Hope you both got some much needed sleep. Also you too Det ? you need sleep too ?you are not too long out of the woods ? so look after yourself mate ? indeed everyone.

Mick as we know thrives on minimal sleep ? must have been all that shift work in the prison service? Hope your special appearance went well.

SL ? just think of all that sleep you can catch up on your holiday. No deadlines or schedules (unless you want them). I am one of those neurotic types who finds it hard to sleep in when I can!

As for the rest of our gang ? how did the dentist go Sam? I am not too bothered about going to the dentist because touch wood I have had good teeth so far ? of course I am now at an age when they are starting to crumble away! Dental care is very expensive here ? its not subsidised and very few private health insurance packages provide cover. So lots of people just never go to the dentist. My own package allows me one paid consult per year ? after that I pay. Daughter gets free care though up till she leaves school but not the orthodontist.

Hope your teeth are doing well Lav and PPQP! Just said that to make small chat. :H

HI there Patrice ? it must be just after midday where you are. I guess that its been pretty grim with the fallout from the airline disasters involving Malaysia and a lot of questions being asked.

OK folks I have a meal to see too. You all be good and remember there is no shame here.

[bear73]

WED AF 30 JULY

hey TT - thank you for your words yesterday, I'm back - day 3 and just sick and tired and fed up and blah blah blah.I'm just focusing on today - I keep saying that - but I'm actually really doing it.
I know lots of you stopped going out but counsellor said to me i need to push through that,I need to prove I can do it without as I'm telling myself I can't,also I hide away when depressed and it perpetuates that. I just need to stay mindful.There is a whole drinks cabinet at home and I never look at that twice.We're all different.

I think my self development course last week was great,but overwhelmed me as I'm a bit 'must do it all now' person.

So for now all I'm taking from it is time alone to chill, I'm using my tattoo colouring book to do creative stuff in low key way - and that is IT!

Off for shower now, zoomzoom - rollerderby tonight and I'm looking forward to it.

[Mick]

WED AF 30 JULY

morning all..though its bloody near dinner time here!!been up since soft o clock this morning....not feeling too clever today ..hey when was I ever clever?:Hwas supposed to be going down to see my brother today..just called him and said I wont be down today..

tried to get on here earlier ..same old same old..let me on to start with and then decided i wasnt good company and binned me off...i n the end I got a bit cheesed with it..:hateputer:

ok here we go then ..tea n coffee on the go...

firstly ..gotta agree with tt about 2 of us on here....truth time......

bear and pauly..no punches pulled here..and Im writing this on an open forum..so if the reply back is "?$% off!" then its down to me and I accept that..what I will say this is meant as a friend trying to help and no other reason..if it stinks then I apologise. I may be crucifying myself here but I do believe in telling the truth

bear...imo..start being yourself..it seems at times you lack self confidence,cannot manage stress or uncomfortable situations..take you out of your comfort zone and you take a dive..then for some reason you turn to drink.even after a few days of not drinking..so ask yourself why ..is it because of past issues?, or perhaps insecurity and that it is the accepted thing with the people you hang out with and the fear is if you quit they will move on..is it because you look at the long term view and think ..shit I am never going to be able to drink again as long as I am alive?there has got to be an answer as to why...and until you find that out..you wont be able to address the issue about drinking..be honest with yourself as to why..you talk about counselling..think its a large chunk of willpower you need

Pauly...again only my opinion so same rules apply ..tell me to do one if you wish..when was the last time you went to work or had a day without drinking?how long did it last?reason Im asking is its a kinda big statement to make that you cant function without it at all...and sort of takes it into another sphere where it could be life threatening if you just cold turkey it...one thing defo ..theres no need to be ashamed or embarrassed..not one of us can look down on anyone..we have all been in that scenario to a greater or lesser extent..all I can say is look at yourself..what do you really want out of life..do you want to enjoy it or just drag yourself thru it...this is the real deal..no rehearsal on this... its life..I/we all will help and support you as much as we can Pauly..so dont just sack it and walk away look at it it and work out how it can be mended :l

Hiya everyone else..hope all is good today..SL how you doing?even you didnt sound so positive!!

hiya Lav ..hows you today?whats the plans for today?shop/kids /garden?its pouring down over here today ..bright side ..saves watering the garden!!

hiya ppqp ,Sam,Patrice ..how are you today?all good.

right folks ..gonna toddle off just now c yawl later

[Lavande]

WED AF 30 JULY

Good morning Abbers & Happy Hump day!

My teeth are a work in progress TT - thanks for asking :H
We do have excellent dental insurance coverage here & for that I am grateful. I get in twice per year for cleanings, eat healthy, brush & floss & still my teeth crumble as you say. I have almost a full mouth of crowns at this point :crowned:

Mick, hope you are feeling better soon friend!
No rain here today, just nice cool temps
I have a doc appointment later this morning then will be back in my shop for work this afternoon. It's going to be a kid-free day today!

Det, glad you are hanging in with your quit. Sorry you had to be tested like that but you passed with flying colors

bear, great on getting back to day 3!
I know you want to work with your counselor but perhaps a period of time away from your drinking triggers would be helpful until you are stronger & ready to accept your quit as a permanent & necessary lifestyle change.

pauly, you can't be physically & emotionally dependent on AL & live a happy fulfilling life. You need to choose, just like I did & so many others here have done!
Where do you see yourself in a year, in 5 years?
Make a plan, write it down, make a vision board - I did. Keeping a visual reminder really is a helpful tool. It sounds like you are dealing with a good bit of depression, that will keep you drinking. Why don't you see a doc & address the depression? At the very least you can pick up some good quality St Johns Wort. When taken as directed it works quite well. I take it myself. Getting my anxiety & depression under control helped me to finally quit drinking for good. It's your choice

Greetings to PQ, SL, Sam, Patrice & everyone!
Have a great AF Wednesday!!!!

Lav

[paulywogg]

WED AF 30 JULY

Mae everybody,i just want to say i'm sorry i acted rude yesterday,you guys have only been supportive,i guess i'm just frustrated with myself and this junk,it just escalated so fast! i wish i would have just held on to my sober self,i like her so much better,hope everybody has a good Wednesday

[scottish lass]

WED AF 30 JULY

In the office - so a quick one.

I also have good teeth, but still don't like the dentist:H
TT - I wake up alarm or not, and am governed by schedules, so hoping I can kick back and relax - time will tell - but likely will get up and walk instead of sleeping in!

Pauly - glad you came back, hope you find the good pauly again - the one you like!

[Byrdlady]

WED AF 30 JULY

Hey all, as you know I lurk here quite a bit...
I am moved to speak if you don't mind...
Bear, as Mick said, we aren't doctors around here, but we all have lived it and we've learned some hard lessons along the way. I have no idea about the credentials of your counselor, but unless he/she is one of us (an alkie), I don't know how they would know 'what's best for you'. Even some addiction counselors I have seen give bizarre advice to members here! So I am saying this in a spirit of goodwill. If what you have tried isn't working, maybe listening to the tried and true methods all of us have used will. I believe that testing the waters too early in sobriety is a recipe for disaster. As you may know, I spend most of my time in the newbie's nest and I compare it to an obese person who is on a very restrictive diet (a life saving diet, no doubt) but being invited to, and attending an "all you can eat' buffet and then expected NOT to eat anything. It just doesn't work that way with us in the beginning. Those first 30 days especially are fragile. I have seen 100's of people fall by getting out there too early (myself included). If getting sober is your #1 priority, then protecting it is the key. There is just too much social pressure to drink in a bar, after all, THAT'S that they are for! You've been at this a while...if what you have been trying hasn't worked, why not listen to people who have walked ahead of you and learned the hard way? None of us are trying to make the journey harder for anyone else, quite the contrary, we are trying to make it easier for our fellow travelers. I just grossly disagree with your counselor if you are being told to push thru it and prove to yourself that you can. That time will come later once you have some strength in your muscles, right now you are just learning to fly. I know that everyone is different, but in addiction, we are more alike that you'd think. If 99 people walk off a cliff and die, I am not willing to be test case #100. I wish you well, just give your AF self a chance to gain strength before you jump! Thanks for listening....Byrdie

[bear73]

WED AF 30 JULY

thanks everyone,I'm working on what I tell myself - i know most of you avoided socialising,and most of you have more of an AA based approach. I'm using more the SMART recovery approach which is about changing your thoughts and knowing your triggers and working round them,and that involves not avoiding situations so they don't build up and then become a huge deal.
I do appreciate the advice I really do

Mick - thanks for your words,its a combination of most of what you have identified - its lack of self belief and its also i can't imagine never drinking again,same as I can't imagine losing 4 stone - but I can imagine losing a pound a week.I'm a worrier and booze was how I switched off and escaped from anxiety and give myself fake confidence - in a really rubbish way.I don't think it's willpower - I've stopped smoking,I've lost two stone in the past, I get myself to work and push through the hideous crap that is being thrown at me every day rather than call in sick and hide - I can knuckle down.

Thanks Byrdlady for posting - I dont go to events anymore where it is about being hammered - the advice was because i avoid socialising/events when i'm blue and its to stop my world getting smaller.This involved me staying sober as the more i do it in those situations, the more faith i have that i can do it.No other situation tempts me at all - that is my only testing time.

I'm scared of losing people(and I'm working on changing that by telling myself whoever goes isn't worth keeping)I'm scared of constantly failing.

I have learnt - I've learnt not to get hungry,to plan,to think about the wasted next day and depression I get for a few days after. I've also learnt that I need to put me first and be my own person.How exactly I'm not sure I do that but I'm trying.

[Mick]

WED AF 30 JULY

Bear ...well done you..that is probably the biggest step you have taken and I take my hat off to you..you didnt have to "spill the beans "for want of better words on an open forum but you did..if its ok with you can we go through the points?

your first one ..lack of self belief..you are as good as any other single person on this planet..we came with nothing..we leave with nothing...you go roller blading ...I wouldnt know what that was if it hit me in the chops!!we all have our individual strengths and weaknesses..

your a worrier...hey guess what so am I ..I worry when I have nothing to worry about!! and yet I dont jump on a booze cruise when I panic..reckon thats a quick win for you.

you gave yourself fake confidence with booze..thats how it may have seemed to you...but the trouble with that is from being one minute really insecure to the next where you imagine the party cant live without you..mustve been a real hoot for your"friends"I put that in apostrophes...if they are true friends..then they will stand by you...you will also be amazed? possibly the wrong word..as you quit and time goes on ,how many people take an interest in it all..that also will give you a boost..

you answered the next one yourself..a pound at a time...and also 1 day at a time..time is immaterial..it is just a marker for you to measure against..the conversation should be I dont drink..not I havent had a drink for a week/month whatever.We do it here to recognise the hard work and effort each and every one of us puts into it and spur each other on to continue.remember ..oodat

Byrdie got it right ..dont put yourself in the position of having the opportunity to drink..noticed you tried to mitigate it by putting I dont go to situations where I can get hammered..wrong answer!you dont need to get hammered..all you need is to be tempted and take one drink and the jobs done..ive yourself a break..take water/coke with you or if poss stay away from the watering holes until you have the confidence ..and it will come.

you say its not willpower ..in that case if you have that ..then focus on your qit above all else and dont be diverted from it..

noticed you talked about work in a pretty low light...ok..why not have a look at it ..why does it hack you off?can you change it?can you look at it in a different light?I suspect that is part of your problem..work is shit you feel shit so ok lets have a glug of escapism!!you say ..you aint going to throw a sickie and hide ...thats good..now look at the issues of work and see what you can do to put some fun into the day..remember when you laugh..people dont know whether you are mad,bad or sad!!..you can go to work for 480 long crappy minutes ..or you can go for 8 hrs and have some fun..and remember you work to live ..not the other way around..cost me a lot to work that one out...I thought I was the dogs bollx.in the prison service,people used to ask me for help and advice on all sorts of operational issues..I was the security guru .all the rest of it..hey 3 years down the line ..Im gone and its still there!!all Im saying is go do a good job and turn it into a laugh if you can ..that way you dont need to escape from anything..
wow this has turned into some post..sorry ..also got lotsa ideas to help you on the way..but this thread is long enough at the mo..perhaps we could start a thread for ideas??

[Samstone]

WED AF 30 JULY

evening all,
long day, running, running, stop, run again. Nothing terrible, nothing great, just feels like the same ol same ol. Beautiful couple of days here. Did the dentist thing, a ok. Used to not go then began having cracked teeth, crowns and all that good stuff so now I do the do 2x a year, by gum!

Bear and Pauly, hope you are able to get that mindset of "I don't drink". Once you decided that you don't, I firmly believe you won't. It is the worrying whether you do or don't is allows that side to wiggle in and take hold, then it is Katie bar the door. (always wondered who the hell Katie was). So much for my sage advice, simplistic as it is.

Hope everyone is doing fine, gotta go work on a @#$%! tractor.
Sam

[patrice]

WED AF 30 JULY

Good Morning all!
TT - yes Malaysian Airlines will probably have to fold..
Wow there's a load of shite going on in the world today!!... I think I'm watching too much (mainstream) news.
Take care all
Pat
Xx

[Byrdlady]

WED AF 30 JULY

Thank you for the reply, Bear!
I am not an AA'r at all, in fact, have never been to a meeting. It didn't seem like the right thing for me but I know it does help a lot of people!
The depression thing is a tricky subject. A chicken and egg thing. Did I drink because I was depressed or was I depressed because I drank? I honestly believe it was the latter, because now that I am sober I am not depressed. There at the end, I was on an AD and about to ask for something to boost it. AL WAS the cause of my downward spiral, self doubt and depression. Getting sober has been a real boost to my self esteem, too. I AM stronger than I ever imagined because while I was drinking I felt very weak, inadequate and vulnerable.
I have decided that willpower is helpful in a lot of situations, but it seems useless when we are talking about addiction. This is all about CHOICE. Once I took the option of drinking off the table forever, the path got EASIER. Yes, easier! The constant struggle of it all tore my resolve apart, but once I made a choice NOT to drink, the struggle was over and all I
had to do was stay the course. Trust me when I say that I look ahead to my future with optimism. The thought of never drinking is a blessed relief. The thoughts of being ripped apart by AL forever are the ones that scare me. There is nothing to fear about being AF once you accept it. Byrdie

[porqoui]

WED AF 30 JULY

MAE ALL....

Some great advice on the thread today, Birdie glad you are here to help.

Pauly....Glad you stuck around and no need for apologies. I hope you had a good day.

Bear...when I was struggling with work issues I learned a valuable lesson. I can't control what's happening but I can control how I react to it. I actually use that rule in all aspects of my life now.

Mick...as far as being clever I think it was on July 4, 2012
Not to pry but it's not the start of an episode is it? You've shared with us that it happens from time to time and I'm wondering if you've come up with any strategies to head it off?

Lav...so did it stay kid free?

Pat...I'm right there with you, constantly watching the news.

Sam...are you working on the tractor or on the tractor working? Got a feeling it's the first one. :H

Time to run....be safe.....PPQP

[treetops]

WED AF 30 JULY

Just to add that I am not an AAer either. I tried some meetings and was really turned off. But it helps some and it's often the only form of free support for many.
I also had counselling that followed Rational Recovery - didn't work either for me.

I too have booze in the house -always have. Not much but there is some. I also have not had a problem with going to social events where there is booze - never tempted to drink at them (if I decided not to) but what would happen was that I would feel anxious, isolated and then I would drink afterwards at home. So I avoided such situations for a while so that I did not hit myself with negative feelings and excuses to drink. I also found that my friends couldn't give a toss about me not drinking. A friend should have enough empathy to not try to persuade you to drink.
Contrary to Brydie I have been depressed since being long-term sober. I was depressed years before my drinking started. But I know that adding booze to the depression mix makes it far worse.
So we are all different even if all have the common problem of AL.

[Samstone]

WED AF 30 JULY

PQ, you got it right. Took the front end loader off, when I bought it 20 years ago it came on the tractor and I've never had it off till today. I took two of the cylinders off, need to be repacked or replaced, hopefully the first!

Not an AAer either, though I tried it about 25 years ago. Just wasn't for me and I really had not come to the place I wanted to quit, in retrospect.

Tell you, if you want to be depressed, watch the news!!! Sheesh... I watch Democracy Now but I can only take in so much. Just too much negativity and I got to stay positivity!