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**A Work in Progress** · September 2, 2008, 01:10 PM

Can moderate sometimes-why not always?

Happens to most of us, I think... certainly happened to me... I could often drink "moderately" but could never really predict when it would go out of control. That's the problem. If you can't always drink "moderately," then you really aren't a "moderate drinker." It's hard for a lot of people to come to that recognition; they just keep wanting to cling to the idea that because they can sometimes drink small amounts, there should be some trick whereby they can ALWAYS drink small amounts. For most of us, it seems that it just doesn't work that way. When we drink alcohol, we essentially disable the parts of our brain that regulate impulse control, and we become much less capable of exercising good judgement. It becomes very dangerous, and when we have had even a couple of drinks, we are simply more vulnerable to all sorts of cues and triggers that can lead to more, and more, and more drinks.

Best wishes,

wip

**Saint Jude** · September 2, 2008, 01:53 PM

Can moderate sometimes-why not always?

Eve, Have you tried Topa?
I also think L-Glutamine is a huge help. Neither of them are a magic pill, you still must exercise a lot of restraint & be very vigilant with yourself... But I think they help tremendously.
As well as lots of exercise, in general, lots of water...checking in here...the CD's...

I think the whole program with all of it's components makes such a huge diff in my. I thank God every day I found this place. Too bad I didn't find it sooner. Guess I just wasn't ready yet.

**kriger** · September 2, 2008, 02:54 PM

Can moderate sometimes-why not always?

A Work in Progress;398897 wrote: For most of us, it seems that it just doesn't work that way. When we drink alcohol, we essentially disable the parts of our brain that regulate impulse control, and we become much less capable of exercising good judgement. It becomes very dangerous, and when we have had even a couple of drinks, we are simply more vulnerable to all sorts of cues and triggers that can lead to more, and more, and more drinks.

Best wishes,

wip

Wip said it so well- our impulse control goes away when we drink. It's like the nursery rhyme: " When she was good she was very, very good and when she was bad she was horrid." I think that is a great description of me around alcohol. For me Abstinence is the only way because I see modding as "staying in the struggle" mode. I don't want to struggle-I want to be free!! You know from being around here a long time that there is a great deal of kindness and support to be had if you just stick around. I hope to get to know you better. Kriger

**Ask For Help** · September 2, 2008, 03:27 PM

Can moderate sometimes-why not always?

Eve:

I'm also a modder and agree with Judie that the Topa helps a lot. I don't take l-glut but in the first months did all the supps and felt great. Exercise is a big help - I almost never drink on days I've gotten a good dose of exercise.

Judie talks about "vigilance". . . I use several methods to maintain that vigilance which are 1) setting a goal for total # of drinks/week 2) setting a goal for # of days/week I drink (no more than 3 days) and lastly, tracking/posting those goals on drink-tracker to keep myself honest.

So when I hear the voice that says "I want more, more more" which does come now and then, I know I'm going to have to post it, that I'm going to have to have less or none the rest of the week, and/or that I'm going to have to acknowledge that I'm not meeting my goals, which is not OK in the long run. This doesn't work 100% of the time, but I'm batting 90%+ after 8 months of modding.

My counselor gave me some advice that has been critical to my success: try to ditch the guilt and remorse. It won't make you drink less, may even make you drink more. Try not to even go there, if you can (too late for last night, but in the future :-))

Instead be verrry curious if you over-drink again. How were you feeling that day? and the day before? Contrast that with how you're feeling on days when you are satisfied with two drinks. Notice any differences and maybe write them down. Note even the littlest things. The goal is to identify trigger situations, as they need to be treated with extreme care.

It sounds like you've been successful in many ways, so build on that, keep on trying, and stick around these boards for support. Feel free to PM me if you want!

Ask

**keke** · September 3, 2008, 01:31 PM

Can moderate sometimes-why not always?

I think it is the brain chemistry that has to change and I'm hoping that after a couple of years on this program that it won't be an issue as long as the supps are continued. Are you doing thr entire MWO program? KeKE

**bloggy** · September 3, 2008, 02:57 PM

Can moderate sometimes-why not always?

I too have days when I can drink a beer or two and be quite satisfied, then the following day I will meet someone for a drink, and still be sitting there long after the other person has gone home and everyone else come to that.

I think once I get to number 3, and certainly number 4, I have lost control- so the crucial moment for me is to leave after number 2, but if someone puts another in front of me- or a drinking partner suddenly turns up- I have had it.

I also seem to lose control a few days before a full moon and a few days before a period- watch out everybody if the 2 events happen to coincide.

The only way I can more or less guarantee I wont over drink is if I eat a huge protein rich meal before starting to drink. That is the only thing that really kills my urge to drink- then I just want to go home to sleep- I don't even want to mod!

**gyco** · September 4, 2008, 03:47 AM

Can moderate sometimes-why not always?

hi eve 11i just started modding after 10 months again of sobriety,give yourself a pat on the back,at least you are recognising you cant have more then a few,some never have that satisfaction,this is something im finding out now,also,i was tot by family that it was ok to get blasted,so i did for 37 yers off and on, again after many years of unsuccessful attempts to stop,and there were many,years at a time ,also if i may say,i find this site helps a lot,control is the answer,if you went out each day and fell in the same hole you would find an alternative route,if you can as a child lern how to drive a bike or a car,you can figure out how to lik this delema,keep coming here ,i or we all enjoy having you here gyco

**out** · September 4, 2008, 08:56 PM

Can moderate sometimes-why not always?

Thought bubble...

If you want to do something stick to it. If someone tells you you are or are not anything it doesn't matter. From everything I have read about the ability to moderate a large part of the ability to do it comes from the belief that it is possible. You can figure it out for yourself over time and even if right now you are not a moderate drinker it doesn't mean you can never be one...just my 2 cents. Take care.

**boozehag** · September 5, 2008, 01:01 AM

Can moderate sometimes-why not always?

I agree out. When I started the program on April 1 I never thought I would be able to moderate as I was in a pretty desperate frame of mind then - I just wanted rid of the burden of AL and the lack of control over my life due to constant binge drinking/smoking and if I never had a drink again it would have been too soon. I followed the program and did my 30/60/90 days and have been modding July/Aug and September. I do think a goal of moderate drinking is a viable option for some and not just an excuse for not being AF. What about people who diet or are compulsive eaters they still have to eat food - they just have to learn to eat moderately. I dont drink much now (by my previous standards) but days that are AF (and they are in the majority) are just great and the occasions I have a couple of drinks are also just as good as I am so happy with myself the next day that I have exercised my choice to not drink to excess when for so long I couldnt. I just want people to know that moderation is possible. I hope this give some people some hope.
BH (no more)

**Sunbeam** · September 6, 2008, 11:08 AM

Can moderate sometimes-why not always?

Hi Eve,
It seems to me that it is possible for some but not all to moderate. For me, it is much easier to abstain than to moderate. Yet, I am still working on moderation because I want to occasionally enjoy wine. I feel I am only able to moderate because I have put in significant AF time. When I have found myself increasing, I have quit again for a couple of weeks to regain control. Each time I have tried to moderate, it is at a lower level. I now limit myself to one day per week, 3 glasses is the intended max. When I have had alcohol more than a day per week, it seems to keep too much in my system. Every day I am also thinking about the possibility of drinking. Now I think about it less. If I have already had a drink that week, I'm done. I am feeling better about this than I honestly did any of the other months I tried to moderate.

**out** · September 8, 2008, 08:13 AM

Can moderate sometimes-why not always?

thanks boozehag

I have actually wanted to write you for a while...I have almost exactly the same habits as you did and I know you went on Chantix. I was wondering if you could give the details of that experience...like how long were you on it are you still? did the cravings for smoking/drinking return after you stopped? I want to try it, but have been afraid because I do have a history of depression and there are so many scary stories out there. Did you ever try the topomax? and are you doing anything to maintain now? I have lots of questions!...thanks so much.

**boozehag** · September 8, 2008, 07:44 PM

Can moderate sometimes-why not always?

Hi out
You cant get the topomax in NZ as far as I can tell otherwise I would have given that a go for sure. I took the champix as an alternative really. I took it at the lowest dose for 30 days - maybe a bit longer. I found it fantastic it was a life saver for me no doubt about it. That is what got me the first 30 days AF and NF. It definitely took away both desire to drink and smoke which for me were one and the same. I came off it after 30 days mainly because I thought I could do without it by then and as it turned out I could. I didnt have any bad side effects other than a headache and weird dreams in the beginning - not scary dreams just weird and very realistic kind of like being in a cartoon but that could have been just the effect of going AF/NF. A lot of my friends said it was all in my mind and that it was really just me and willpower not the pills but I know different. I never got past day 3/4/5 before I took them.
Even though the pills didnt have any bad side effects I was aware I was taking something as I felt a little bit wired/high but that was all good too - got lots done. I might have to go on them again soon as I am getting lazy now!
I am not taking anything now except the L- glut which I do feel helps me - dont really know how but it cant do any harm can it.
When I first starting modding in July I nearly caved on the cigs and that of course would have lead me back to binge drinking and that was the hardest time but I managed to get through it - just. My 17 year old daughter would have killed me if I smoked so that was a big deterrent as I am scared of her!.
I dont have any urge to smoke now at all even when I drink but then again without the added kick of nicotine there doesnt seem much point in drinking much. Quite a lot of the people I socialise with smoke so it is practically shoved down my throat (pardon the pun) on a regular basis and it doesnt even bother me now. It was probably a good thing that I had to hang around with smokers as I just had to deal with it even though I had to white knuckle it a few times early on. If you have a history of depression you might want to check with your Doctor first before taking them but I think you should know pretty quick whether they effect you badly or not. Quite a few people on here have taken then with varied results but the drug certainly hit the spot in my brain maybe because the drink and the cigs were totally connected as I never had one without the other.
Feel free to PM me anytime if have any questions.
BH

**DeeBee** · September 9, 2008, 10:07 AM

Can moderate sometimes-why not always?

Eve,

I don't have any answers for you, in fact I have a lot of simular questions that you are posing.

Just wanted to say a heartfull thanks for posting. I am at a cross roads with AL, after doing 40 days I am now wondering whether I can go back to modding and your post has really affected me as I can see myself possibly doing what you have.

I took Topa for 3 months whilst modding and it was a real sucess but now that I have 40 days AF to my name I thought maybe one drink wouldn't harm ..... I see now how wrong I could be.

Wishing you well on your journey to sobriety.

**out** · September 9, 2008, 03:41 PM

Can moderate sometimes-why not always?

one more thought here...

I think most of the people who come to this site come to abstain or decided to abstain after their own struggles led them to the conclusion it was best for them. While I think it is a personal journey...we don't all drink or not drink for the same reasons, but I do belive that our social groups influence our thinking, our behavior and out beliefs in what we think is possble and I wonder why so many people who have chosen to abstain come to a monthly moderation thread to talk about how they couldn't moderate. This sounds a bit bitchy and perhaps it is, but it is important to say because it is about the level of support and possibility of options that we allow each here and that really doesn't support the person trying to mod to realize their own chosen goals. In my opinion this is much better placed in General Discussion or The Abstinence threads than here. It is not wrong to speak your mind, but I do think in this area it is not supportive or helpful really. I support anyone here in meeting THEIR OWN goals and I will not imply what your goals should be or what your behavior says about who you are. It is why I personally can not go for AA, because I refuse to believe this is about who I am or what I am or am not capable of, but about what I do sometimes.

When someone is trying to abstain and they slip up, have a bender whatever, even if they do it repeatedly. No one tells them "gee, that just proves you can't abstain". We all say, tomorrow is another day and get back up and try again, but when someone slips when they are trying to mod, there are lots of people to say or imply that that proves you can't do it. You may try to mod unsuccesfully for a while and then get it as you get your legs about your triggers etc, you may abstain now and mod later or you can abstain it is up to you, but I think that if enough people say or imply that something isn't possible it will effect your beliefs too.

There is a good book, out of print now, but you can still get it at Amazon, The Art of Moderation: An Alternative to Alcoholism by John Michael, John M. Price, and Sharon Jones.
John was an on again off again abstainer, binger in and out of AA, until he rejected the idea that he had to be one thing or another and assesed his values and internal and external life until he could moderate. It took time and effort, but he did it and is free.

I have had periods of moderation, abstinence and binge drinking alternately throughout my life and I am still figuring things out for myself. One thing I have figured out is that just abstaining for a while ihas not been that helpful to me, because I haven't really used that time to think about my relationship with AL or to deal with the emotional problems that have led me to lean on AL in the first place. Right now I am doing a period of abstinence where I am going to work on these things, and then mod later. I think this is key. Stay strong tomorrow is another day for moderation, for being on the fence, for learning from our slips, for picking flowers, for picking your nose

. It is all about what you want to do.

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Can moderate sometimes-why not always?

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