The Mod Hatters!

[Eve11]

The Mod Hatters

You’ve fallen down the rabbit hole and have found our wonderland...our monthly moderation site. Don’t worry, you will find your way out. The difference is you will make the choice to find your own way and not have others find your way for you.

As you look around you will discover we wear many hats here. We are a diverse group of people. We are teachers and nurses, businessmen and professional women, librarians, lawyers and technicians… we are Jacks of all trades, white collar and blue. We are men and women, with the excitement of youth and the wisdom that comes with age. We are diverse and different in many, many ways but very alike with one common denominator... we have all found this site because we finally faced the fact that we were having a problem with alcohol in our lives.

We want to extend a warm welcome to all newbies (newcomers) wishing to reduce their drinking, whether as a lifestyle or as a pathway to eventual abstinence. We recognize that these decisions take time, and reducing your intake to safer levels will improve your health whatever your final choice.

According to the NIAAA and many other independent researchers, there are four times as many problem drinkers as alcoholics in this country. Yet there are very few programs that specifically address their needs but thousands of programs that address the needs of the smaller population who are seriously alcohol dependent. Moderate drinking cannot be achieved by everyone and a program to moderate ones drinking is not recommended for alcoholics, chronic drinkers, or those who experience significant withdrawal symptoms when they stop drinking. It is intended for problem drinkers who have experienced mild to moderate levels of alcohol-related problems. Recognition of one’s risky drinking behavior is promoted here, while learning to moderate (1-7 drinks per week for women and 1-14 drinks per week for men) is the achievable recovery goal.

Moderation usually does not work for those who are alcohol dependent. Dependency is usually manifested by three or more of the following criteria occurring at any time in the same 12 month period.

• Withdrawal Symptoms: Examples include sweating or high pulse rate, increased hand tremor, insomnia, nausea or vomiting, and in some cases, transient visual, tactile, or auditory hallucinations or illusions, psycho-motor agitation, anxiety, and grand-mal seizures.
• Markedly Increased Tolerance: Need much more alcohol to achieve intoxication or desired effect, or notice that the same amount doesn’t affect you like it used to.
• Unintended Use: for longer period or larger amount. Examples include drinking to the point of vomiting or passing out.
• Unsuccessful Efforts to Cut down or Control use: Cannot stop drinking at any point without difficulty, unable to stop drinking alcohol after 1 or 2 without a struggle.
• Preoccupation with Use: Time spent obtaining substance or recovering from its effects. May include drinking at multiple locations in one evening, spending inordinate time purchasing alcohol, or planning how to obtain alcohol, or spending significant time recovering from hangover effects.

We recommend you take an alcohol dependence scale test to see how severe your dependence on alcohol is. Individuals wanting to moderate do best with if they score less than 14 on this scale. http://www.recoverynowla.com/images/ADS.pdf
We aso encourage you to read our thread here entitled 30 days AF if you are considering giving moderation a try.

Feel free to peruse all the sites where you will find valuable information regarding the book Roberta Jewell wrote, supplements she recommends, and hypnotherapy tapes that have proven helpful to those as they venture on this new journey of recovery.

So, welcome, grab a seat between the March Hare and the Mod Hatter and tell us what brought you here. We look forward to getting to know about you and are excited to share our stories and experiences as we get to know each other better. Hats off to you friend! We’re glad you found us.

:l
Eve11

[FarfallaP]

The Mod Hatters!

Hi Eve,

This such a clever idea...and title! You've included a lot of useful information, too.

Falling down the rabbit hole can be such a good metaphor for a life-changing experience, and making a decision to address a personal habit which may be causing a problem in one's life certainly has the potential to lead to great changes.

I, for one, am glad I started on this journey of freedom from constant alcohol use, as my overall quality of life has been significantly improved...and I'm very grateful to the MWO tools you mentioned, plus the information so generously shared by MWO members over the years.

One request...could you please post a link to the Tool Box? It's one of my favorite threads, and I still haven't mastered some of the intricacies of this website. Thanks. FFP

[LibraryGirl]

The Mod Hatters!

I'm not sure that the withdrawals, or at least the first one, would necessarily mean a person couldn't moderate. I had insomnia, mild sweating, shaking hands when I first stopped nightly drinking. Remember, some of us were abusing AL every single day. If you've not gone a day without drinking for years, you're going to have some kind of withdrawal symptoms. Mine were not life threatening nor did they last long, but they did happen. Oops I had more than just the first one, lol. I was drinking too often and too much, etc. etc. I don't think many would come here (by *here* I mean MWO) if they didn't experience any of those symptoms listed.

Just wanted to add that.

[Alcoholic]

The Mod Hatters!

Eve: love your posts.

All these are guidelines and apply to majority of the people but a small percentage of people don't fall into any particular categories.

Just like pancreatic cancer has a poor prognosis in general, but a few people survive it.

However, it's human nature to think that we are the exceptions of the rule. And some of us are. So we try to mod and fail, then try again and fail, eventually we learn we are not the lucky few. However, there are some lucky fews, like the very rare lottery winner!

Most Abstainers and most modders to me are not that different because they "fail" just a much. But it seems like they are harder on themselves than modders. They just have higher expectations thus when they fail, the intensity of their shame of failure is so much greater. Most of the modders I see really try to have as many AF days as they can.

That's just my humble opinion. I don't like strict categories. Most of us are in the gray area instead of one category vs another.

[ToMyHealth]

The Mod Hatters!

Hey, Eve, love the thread name and all the info. And welcome to anyone who is searching for an answer to a drinking problem. And let's face it we wouldn't be here if we did not think we have a drinking problem.

As far as withdrawals, my biggest one has been/is insomnia. While I lie there wide awake I do think about how being a bit tired the next day will feel compared to a hangover.

Look around, then should you choose to hang your hat with us, please jump right in!

TMH

[Doggygirl]

The Mod Hatters!

Eve - excellent post!

Librarygirl and anyone else wondering.....

The information about symptoms such as withdrawal, tolerance, preoccupation with drinking, etc. are backed by research and come direction from the DSM-IV. (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. So it's not just something that Eve came up with or something pulled out of the hat. If you met with a professional counselor, those are the criteria they would use to diagnose the alcohol problem.

Next May (2013) the DSM-V is due out. I haven't seen the specifics, but my understanding is that substance disorders will no longer be diagnosed as abuse or dependence (or not), but will be diagnosed along a continuum. That makes a lot of sense to me.

At any rate - what a great starting point for people who have not decided whether they want to pursue abstinence or not. This is the type of experimentation I did completely alone. Who knows - maybe I would have found my way to my own truth a lot sooner had I been part of a supportive (and honest!!!) group when I was still trying to control my drinking.

Good luck and safe travels to all...

DG

[Alcoholic]

The Mod Hatters!

DG:

yes, i totally agree that a continuum will work a lot better. I hope no one thought I was disagreeing w what eve said because she is totally on target. Very thorough, accurate, and well balanced as she always is.

I also hope some of the other mental disorders will be more of a spectrum diagnosis instead of this or that because it would make my life a lot easier. This categorical stuff that's in DSM IV causes many of the mental health professionals diagnose everything using the code NOS, not otherwise specified code, , like mood disorder, nos.

But distinguishing abuse and dependence is helpful too. Maybe they should just stage it like they do cancer. Cocaine use stage 1-5.





.

[LibraryGirl]

The Mod Hatters!

Let me reword what I said, or make it more clear. I have absolutely no doubt that all of the dependency symptoms are correct. What I said was that it doesn't necessarily indicate that a person who experienced one or more of these symptoms cannot moderate.

I actually had the shaking hands when I was drinking heavily, or the day after...they disappeared when I quit and haven't returned after modding. I had some night sweats also after quitting, but not prolonged and quit also after 1-2 nights. When I was drinking I had an increased tolerance and could drink more than I do/can now. I have also drank to the point of passing out, although I have not vomited from AL in over 10 years. Those were my symptoms and I am still able to moderate.

Does that make sense?

(I did not, however, have any major withdrawals after getting over my last hangover when I quit in February. I did not crave AL or shake and feel like I was going to die or anything of that nature)

[Zenstyle]

The Mod Hatters!

Eve11;1402304 wrote:
You will find that here as well, we have many supportive threads for those trying to abstain but only these two dedicated threads for monthly moderation and long term moderation here at MWO.

What are you on about? I'm not an Abber yet I am a long term member of the Army Thread...

I'm so fed up of the Ab -v- Mod thing. It's getting real old.

[LibraryGirl]

The Mod Hatters!

I don't think Eve was trying to start anything Zenstyle. We have been told that moderating talk should be kept to the Mod forums only. Therefore she assumed, as I did, that all threads outside of this area are AF.

[Alcoholic]

The Mod Hatters!

Lg:

DSM IV tr page xxxvii has a cautionary statement: it's offered as "guidelines only" to facilitate "communication" among clinicians and investigators, thus we don't make up our own diagnosis like wine abuse disorder or beer drinker disorder.

I don't recall which earlier DSM actually classified homosexuality as a mental disorder and we used to give shock therapy to homosexuals... That didn't work, apparently...,

[Zenstyle]

The Mod Hatters!

LibraryGirl;1402625 wrote: I don't think Eve was trying to start anything Zenstyle. We have been told that moderating talk should be kept to the Mod forums only. Therefore she assumed, as I did, that all threads outside of this area are AF.

LG... I'm not an Abber. I join whatever thread I feel like joining. I really do not accept this diversity that is being promoted... I think it is unproductive in the extreme.

So one can't post on a thread unless they are abstinent? LG.... luvvie... if someone ever tells you that tell 'em to git going!

I would lobby that it is more important to be a good person than it is to be a modder or an abber.

[Eve11]

The Mod Hatters!

LibraryGirl;1402625 wrote: I don't think Eve was trying to start anything Zenstyle. We have been told that moderating talk should be kept to the Mod forums only. Therefore she assumed, as I did, that all threads outside of this area are AF.

Zen,
LG hit the nail on the head. We are very cautious where we post as we don't want to jepordize someone's recovery who is struggling very hard to abstain so we have found the threads designed for moderators seem to be the safest place to discuss our lifestyle. People who consider themselves moderators do post wherever they want to... general thread, just starting out, etc. but over time we are learning to be more cautious with not talking about our "mod" lifestyle on threads other than the forum designed for moderators. I am not familiar with the thread you mentioned so enlighten us...sounds encouraging if everyone is posting there without friction. Oh, as an added thought, everyone is welcome to post here no matter what route they've taken as some don't even know what route they are taking!! We are very nonjudgmental here.

:l
Eve11

[Zenstyle]

The Mod Hatters!

Eve11;1402632 wrote: Zen,
LG hit the nail on the head. We are very cautious where we post as we don't want to jepordize someone's recovery who is struggling very hard to abstain so we have found the threads designed for moderators seem to be the safest place to discuss our lifestyle. People who consider themselves moderators do post wherever they want to... general thread, just starting out, etc. but over time we are learning to be more cautious with not talking about our "mod" lifestyle on threads other than the forum designed for moderators. I am not familiar with the thread you mentioned so enlighten us...sounds encouraging if everyone is posting there without friction. Oh, as an added thought, everyone is welcome to post here no matter what route they've taken as some don't even know what route they are taking!! We are very nonjudgmental here.

:l
Eve11

Eve... You don't know of the Army thread? In General Discussion? You've been here longer than me...

I hope you don't mind me asking, but what is your nationality? Maybe English isn't your first. I know we have a lot of people on here with different first languages.

In any event I dispute the fact that modders are not welcome on the rest of the boards. I'm a modder and I'm allowed to mosey on through... and I reckon that is how it should be. It's about humanity and the person within. That has to come first, right? Or am I being mushy?

[sunshinedaisies]

The Mod Hatters!

Zen - I agree that the diversity is not a good idea BUT I stopped posting a long time ago mainstream because I was basically told in a roundabout way that I shouldn't post 'cos I still drank and that was not a good thing for me to post for those who were looking to abstain. In fact I am not sure it is a good idea for me to post even now. I tend to keep out of this stuff. BUT Eve started this thread for modders which is a good idea.

Modders do tend to be shunned in others areas of this whole forum. I think it is a nice idea for them to have somewhere for them to go if they don't have a regular thread that they go to - like you have the army thread.

It isn't meant as a slight to anyone else and anyone else is welcome to post here too..... you are not being mushy and I know anyone can post on the army thread too, and I thank you for that, but this thread is just slightly different.

Hope you can understand that - love and hugs, sun XXX