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    #16
    My current approach to moderation

    drinkingal, your above post was so beautifully worded and so true in my opinion!

    K9's does have a valid point that a lot of people leave because they cannot moderate. I know that is true as some have shared that with me as well. However, there have been others who have shared with me that they are moderating with success but chose to leave because of various reasons that didn’t have anything to do with not being able to moderate. Some just grow tired of reporting here and being reminded that people are counting drinks, tracking drinks, etc. Look at my post for April and you’ll see what I mean. But for problem drinkers (because anyone who finds MWO is a problem drinker) some can find success but they have to really work at making moderating successful when they’ve overdrank in the past. A few have personally shared with me that they find it harder to moderate when they have to “think” about their drinking experiences and coming here and reading posts makes them dwell on their situation too much. They would rather just moderate on their own without a reporting system and it seems to work well for them. Others find other support groups that work just as well for them but are not for alcohol, e.g. overeater’s anonymous (food addiction) that can be applied to those trying to moderate drinking as many of the principles are the same. So just because moderators leave doesn’t mean that they are all unsuccessful.

    I am with you drinkingal in the belief that moderating is a first step for folks, whether they end up being able to moderate or not. Self-monitoring in itself seems to help people reduce their drinking. It helps them to be more aware of their drinking and to pay better attention to how much they are imbibing. I know for me I could get lost in the flow of drinking more than I liked when I wasn’t self monitoring and keeping up with others at a party or event when the drinks just kept flowing. Coming here to get support to learn to “think” about how many I am having, (and then even taking it one step further) by tracking what went on when I drank, (was I hungry, was there a trigger, was I with someone who drinks a lot?) etc. helped me to evaluate my drinking pattern and get a better handle on it.

    And back to you Freethinker, yes, this is a moderation site so although some folks will share that moderating didn’t work for them, it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t work for others.

    Hugs to all,
    :l
    Eve11
    "Control your destiny or somebody else will"

    ~Jack Welsh~:h

    God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know it's me. ~Author unknown, :thumbs:

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      #17
      My current approach to moderation

      Thanks Eve for another gem. Have a great weekend everyone!

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        #18
        My current approach to moderation

        Freethinker, there is a large group of people that will disagree with you, no matter how rational your thoughts. I agree with you, but they never will because it cracks open that door that keeps them from drinking. They create a whole different belief system. They are doing what they need to do to keep themselves from drinking.

        Hi Eve!
        My life is better without alcohol, since 9/1/12. My sobriety tool is the list at permalink 236 on the toolbox thread under monthly abstinance.

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          #19
          My current approach to moderation

          Sunbeam;1488076 wrote: Freethinker, there is a large group of people that will disagree with you, no matter how rational your thoughts. I agree with you, but they never will because it cracks open that door that keeps them from drinking. They create a whole different belief system. They are doing what they need to do to keep themselves from drinking.

          Hi Eve!

          Sunbeam,

          I totally understand you. Absolutely, I know that avoiding alcohol like the plague is the only answer for a lot of folks. I totally repect that. For people who don't have an "off" switch, I can understand cultivating a whole new belief system about it. You have to do what you have to do.

          As I said, I created this thread not to argue the point. (and I won't). It was started with the intention of stating my personal moderation goals and not for anyone to say it never works. There's plenty of other forums (most of them) here for that. This thread is for like-minded people. No need for it to be hi-jacked. That's why it was posted in a moderation
          forum. Thanks for your input.

          Comment


            #20
            My current approach to moderation

            freethinker;1488372 wrote:
            As I said, I created this thread not to argue the point. (and I won't). It was started with the intention of stating my personal moderation goals and not for anyone to say it never works. There's plenty of other forums (most of them) here for that. This thread is for like-minded people. No need for it to be hi-jacked. That's why it was posted in a moderation forum. Thanks for your input.
            freethinker,

            We think alike as I started this post without reading your last line and this is what it said:

            This is the moderation thread so we shouldn't have to be arguing any point as the members who frequent the site are trying to support each other in their moderation goals.


            I know sometimes there is the statement about why people who think they can moderate find sites like this as they obviously have a drinking problem. Well, the answer is, yes we do have a problem. We're not normal drinkers and know we never will be. But some of us can curtail our drinking and change our pattern when we realize we have a problem, even though I believe most of us can't. To not re-invent the wheel, I am going to cut and paste something I wrote on another thread that explains why people like us find MWO.

            I have read people on other alcoholism support sites say things like, "if they could moderate they wouldn't be at online alcoholism sites" and things like that. So, when I came across the work and thoughts of the psychiatrist who talked about "restrained" drinking versus "moderate" drinking, it made all of the sense in the world to me. So, to clarify for anyone new to all of this, moderate drinkers (to me) are folks who don't have a problem with AL and choose to be social drinkers who have 1 or 2 drinks and then as the dinner is ending they have coffee or a non-al drink and don't even have a thought to more alcohol. However, a restrained drinker is someone who knows they have a faulty shut off valve. They haven't reached the stage of true alcoholism but know that they are wired differently than people without any type of alcohol problem. Usually they really don't want to quit at two or three (the third should be the max in an evening per moderate drinking standards- two is more desirable) but if they are working their program, they restrain/force themselves by not continuing to drink but usually have some internal dialogue about it and have to work at not drinking more. I think that is why a lot of folks decide to abstain after struggling with trying to moderate or "restrain" their drinking as it is a lot of work! However, for those who are working hard to moderate what they drink, I am thankful we have this board at MWO so we can help each other be more in control with our AL issues and support each other in our goals to drink moderately.
            Someone once made a statement about drinking not even being worth it if you could only have one or two. Well, I went out to dinner last night and chose to have 1 glass of wine with my meal. I had to get up early to give a lecture today and I do find that alcohol can affect my sleep if I have two or more so I stopped at one. I enjoyed my glass of wine with my meal. I stopped at one without a problem. There have been times where I do crave more and that is why I enjoy the support I get here from fellow moderators so that I can stay strong in maintaining my goals. For some, they wouldn't like the fact that they struggle with the cravings here and there and may choose abstinence. Who knows, I may decide to choose abstinence one day. But for now, moderation works for me and I am thankful for the support from fellow "modders".

            Have a good Saturday and make healthy choices~
            :l
            Eve11

            p.s. Special hugs to you Sunbeam!
            "Control your destiny or somebody else will"

            ~Jack Welsh~:h

            God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know it's me. ~Author unknown, :thumbs:

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              #21
              My current approach to moderation

              freethinker,

              While looking at old posts, I found this one on L-glut and why it works so well to decrease cravings. Not remembering where you're at regarding L glut (if you're knowledgeable about it or taking it). So, will just cut and paste in case you need some info on it as many people swear by it.

              We hear about taking L-Glutamine to reduce cravings but without knowing why it works it’s difficult to believe that it does work.

              I have done extensive research on L-Glut. At first I wasn’t making any headway as everyone kept saying the same thing: That’s it’s a powerful amino acid proven effective in double blind clinical trials to reduce cravings for alcohol. But no-one was explaining WHY it works so it’s been hard for me to believe that it does work.

              Then I came across an article by Dr. Patricia Slagle who explains best why L-Glut is effective. First of all:

              L-Glut 101:
              Glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in circulation in our bodies. It is a major fuel source & therefore energy source for the entire body. It is an important fuel for the brain & can provide adequate energy in the absence of glucose (the other major brain fuel). For this reason it is helpful with focus, concentration, memory, intellectual performance, alertness, attentiveness, improving mood and eliminating brain fog & cloudiness. (All the more reason to take it gang!)

              This gets too deep medically so in laymen’s terms alcohol may cause exaggerated insulin secretion resulting in severe hypoglycemia (too low blood sugar).

              When the blood sugar is low, Glutamine suppresses insulin to stop the further decline of the sugar levels. It also stimulates glycogen (a stored form of glucose) to be released to help increase the blood sugar to normal levels. These blood sugar stabilizing effects may partially explain why it decreases alcohol cravings, as well as sugar cravings. In studies with alcoholics, 2000-3000 mg 3 times daily decreased the desire to drink, decreased anxiety, & improved sleep. It works best given between meals. It has been used for this purpose in daily doses from 6000-15,000 mg in 3 divided doses. Use upon arising, mid-morning & mid-afternoon between meals.

              L-Glutamine may be taken on a daily basis, or kept on hand to manage "craving emergencies" in which the powder from half a 1,000 capsule is poured directly under the tongue. Many MWO members have shared this info with each other stating that this works for them when they are undergoing severe cravings.

              Giving Glutamine to rats decreased their voluntary alcohol consumption by 34%. When the Glutamine was stopped, their alcohol consumption returned to baseline levels.

              Studies using high dose Glutamine have failed to demonstrate toxicity. However Glutamine should be avoided in cases of acute liver failure & kidney failure.

              Precautions: Glutamine should not be taken by persons with cirrhosis of the liver, kidney problems, Reye's syndrome, or any type of disorder that can result in an accumulation of ammonia in the blood.

              To our good health!
              Eve11
              "Control your destiny or somebody else will"

              ~Jack Welsh~:h

              God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know it's me. ~Author unknown, :thumbs:

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                #22
                My current approach to moderation

                Thanks Eve. I'll look into this stuff. I'm already used to taking supplements. May throw this into the mix.

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                  #23
                  My current approach to moderation

                  I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed this thread!

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                    #24
                    My current approach to moderation

                    Thanks persimmon,

                    I like freestyle's title and thoughts regarding his approach. I am super excited today as I have lost that last 10 pounds that thinner people can never get rid of but are just as miserable about it as heavier folks. I have changed my diet style since picking up a fab book at a health store that changed my life "The Science of Being Skinny". We have gotten rid of processed foods, grew our own garden and are eating so much better. With that comes the desire to not drink as much as AL is a toxin and with trying to be healthier it's kind of an oxymoron if I drink too much. So...with that being said, I started taking L Glut as I had researched it and given freethinker info on it and thought it may help in my process of drinking less or not at all. I have never been one to have big cravings, like "it must be 5:00 somewhere" kind of thing. But, I do look forward to that drink or two on Friday or Saturday night. Well, no Al this last week-end, and think it's been about 10 days. Not sure if it's the L Glut helping a lot or not but I think worth trying for those who really suffer those bad cravings.

                    Well, have to go to work but just wanted to share my happy news regarding the weight loss, and well, without any AL in my system from last night, I feel on top of the world!

                    :l
                    Eve11
                    "Control your destiny or somebody else will"

                    ~Jack Welsh~:h

                    God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know it's me. ~Author unknown, :thumbs:

                    Comment


                      #25
                      My current approach to moderation

                      Congrats Eve,

                      Great news with losing weight, for sure it's all about what food we eat and of course the amount of AL we drink. I've noticed the more sober I am the more I watch what I eat.

                      So it's win win all round.:goodjob::goodjob:
                      It's not what you drink, it's how much!

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                        #26
                        My current approach to moderation

                        Excellent news Eve. You've raised the standards I set originally in this thread and give me something to aim towards. I've got to try some of the L-Glut as well. Glad to hear you sounding healthy and happy.

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                          #27
                          My current approach to moderation

                          Hello, Free, Eve, Lasha, Pers and all,
                          I hope you don't mind me joining in... I went back to the beginning of this thread and read all the way through. Great thread! Free, I REALLY appreciate the fact that you kept bringing people back to your original focus - your own desire to moderate, and your willingness to allow others to join you in discussing the whole process.

                          Eve, congrats on losing that last ten pounds! I am definitely going to pick up that book. I am NOT a naturally thin person, but through training for races and a strong desire to not be a fat old person (or a fat old drunk person ) I am within 20 pounds of my desired weight. A long cold snowy spring has done nothing to encourage me to drop the winter weight... thanks for the great idea.

                          SO... here is my own personal revelation, and it may be something that the rest of you will say, "Well, duh!" and slap your heads over, but it truly was a revelation to me. Since I have been really working my moderation plan, some evenings more successfully than others, I have found that one or two glasses of wine gives me that lovely glow-y feeling I am looking for. The third glass totally drowns it. And the third one puts someone else in control who is likely to pour that next and next drink. So, this past week or so I have been (when I do choose to drink, which isn't every night) trying to really sit back and enjoy the sensation of the one or two glasses. Oddly, I don't know why this comes as such a surprise to me. Whooda thunk, eh? Some is good, more must be better? No. Definitely not for me.

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                            #28
                            My current approach to moderation

                            Does L-Glut and/or kudzu work for the physical w/d symptoms?
                            Well it's all right now. I've learned my lesson well. You see you can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself.

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                              #29
                              My current approach to moderation

                              Hiya Modders,

                              Just wanted to pop in and say Hello to the Mod Gang. You are such an uplifting and kind bunch and I have missed you. Still an Abber and very content. I'm pretty sure I just drank up my lifetime's quota and beginning to really enjoy my new life without it.

                              nonamegirl;1493583 wrote: ...I have found that one or two glasses of wine gives me that lovely glow-y feeling I am looking for. The third glass totally drowns it. And the third one puts someone else in control who is likely to pour that next and next drink. So, this past week or so I have been (when I do choose to drink, which isn't every night) trying to really sit back and enjoy the sensation of the one or two glasses...
                              This reminded me of a quote (I was told it was said by Marilyn Monroe) Martinis are like breasts ~ 1 isn't enough and 3 is too many! :H When I first starting drinking I noticed this to be true for myself. If I actually paid attention to my body, after two drinks I became tired and knew I should stop (that IS what 'normal' drinkers do, right?). That's when the gauge was working and had I listened may have saved myself (and others) a ton of suffering. Hindsight & all.

                              Anyway...sending good thoughts and Xoxox's to you all. :huggy: P.
                              "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed, and redeemed; never throw out anyone."
                              
? Audrey Hepburn, Actress and Philanthropist :heart:

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                                #30
                                My current approach to moderation

                                P.S. Freethinker,

                                I read on a different thread that your kitty passed on to the other side. I recently lost mine too, same age. There are not words to express how sorry I am for the pain you are feeling. They are a precious gift that we get to have and to hold for a time. You can get back on your plan, we are here to support you. Keeping you in my thoughts...P.
                                "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed, and redeemed; never throw out anyone."
                                
? Audrey Hepburn, Actress and Philanthropist :heart:

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