Moving on to Life

[Trying To Be Happy]

Hi Kensho,

I just want to say thank you too. I have found this thread to be very illuminating. I am eight months into my journey, which has been predominantly alcohol free. I started on medication with a doctor and counsellor specialising in addiction through an outpatient clinic here in Australia and spent the first 3 1/2 months not drinking at all. I then decided to have a "calculated break" - by that I meant to try having a couple of drinks to re-examine my relationship with alcohol. I planned for it to last four days - it ended up being a couple of weeks but did not ramp up to previous levels. Before I did that I posted about it here - and got a lot of feedback saying it was a bad idea, protect my quit, etc. I understand the feedback was coming from a good place, and that they were trying to help me. I just don't regret the decision. I learned a LOT about myself not drinking, but that period also helped me see how it could creep back up really easily, and I stopped again, with no medication. I have since successfully abstained. I know where the advice was coming from, and like you, I completely respect that some people just need to quit and never drink again. I just think that while for a good number it can send people down the path of destruction again, for some of us it can be a helpful thing to explore what our feelings are about alcohol.

In a way, it forces you to stare it in the eyes in a way you don't do by totally abstaining. I get pragmatically that abstaining really helps a lot of people, and really, if you don't drink it is not like there is a problem with that - it is a nasty, toxic, substance that does very little for our health. I just think if you are capable of insight and reflection, and are not a highly physically addictive drinker (in the way that you lose control as soon as you have a sip) then it can have some self-educative purpose. I do think that the period of abstinence before doing so is crucial though. A month is good but for me it took a while for me to feel safe to try it. It wasn't even my intention to try it at the beginning. I don't even really want to moderate - I just don't want to go back there again! Being truly open to whatever the outcome is is also crucial I think. You can't moderate because you just want to - otherwise we wouldn't have got ourselves here in the first place. I think you have to understand your own relationship to alcohol to work out what works for you.

I know I am saying what you already have worked out - I just wanted to thank you for your thread. It is clarifying things for me - I really appreciate your words, and the thoughtful responses from other posters. Thank you, all!

[scottish lass]

Saturday is my day to get a walk in, and it was a beautiful day - I "borrow" two dogs and today managed 5.8 miles - and I do a lot of thinking.

I was thinking about this thread, and not wanting to hijack, but had some thoughts. I have visited the moderators threads and never really clicked there. I think that the counting, limiting, rationing etc is what bothered me - I have never been good at calorie counting, and this felt the same. As with many people, that is what I thought I came for, but Kensho, you might have it.

I want to be a "social" drinker - on my walk I was thinking rare social drinker, but I am not really a social person - so that wasn't quite hitting the nail on the head.

I have teen girls - and hopefully one day they will get married and I want to join in the toast. This summer my dad turns 80. I have special memories of sitting in the late evening with my father, after Mum had gone to bed, smoking a cigar and sipping on a malt whisky. I would love to sip a whisky with him this summer - he is getting frail, I only go home every two years, and that would make a special memory.
I want to be able to have the occasional drink. I do not want to feel guilty. I also do not want to go back to drinking a bottle a night. I want to wake up feeling great, I want to keep working on my self esteem. I want to keep all that I have gained, but once in a wee while, I want to have a drink and I want to be ok with that.

I don't see this as moderating. TTBH, you seem to be saying the same.

I am scared to try as so many people seem to try and fall down Bryds rabbit hole - but you seem to have succeeded Kensho.
This is a very thoughtful and thought provoking thread, and it is letting me think about some feelings that have been buzzing about.

[NoSugar]

SL, if I remember correctly, you drank only occasionally during the year before you quit. As you look at it now, was that better? I see Kensho's approach as one to consider if you're not willing to stop drinking entirely for whatever reason - it certainly is better than active, addictive drinking. Ideally, it is a step towards ultimate abstinence. However, it isn't clear to me why you'd let it back into your life after you'd successfully freed yourself. Those circuits in your brain almost certainly would be reactivated. I hope you don't risk all you've gained. xx, NS

[KENSHO]

Hi there. Back from camping. Nice time! It snowed - but we were so glad we didn't chicken out. There were only 4 other sites taken - so it was quiet and lovely. I did have a glass of wine. My husband asked, as it was our 11 year anniversary. So I had one. I didn't want more - and I slept well.

I would like to take the time to respond more later, but did want to say a couple of things quickly. One is that I did some reading about "alcohol abuse" vs. "alcoholic" and found a few different schools of thought. There were several web pages that believed there are two types of drinkers: problem drinkers who abuse alcohol, and full fledged alcoholics. It seemed consistent to what I read that people who are in the latter category should completely abstain from alcohol. Some people believe that those in the first category might be able to moderate and not relapse into a destructive pattern of drinking.

I think that if you are considering "moderating", you need to take a very close look at which group you fit into, and then honestly assess if it is worth a risk to consume alcohol. I firmly believe that some people - be it genetics, brain chemistry, behavioral patterns, associations, etc. cannot moderate without quite a struggle - PERIOD. Please, PLEASE do not take my words as a green light to go out drinking. I am sharing my experience because I feel it is part of my journey. I came here wishing to stop abusing alcohol and stop drinking daily - and my experience is possibly quite different than yours. Please assess your own place. From what I briefly read, very few alcoholics are able to successfully moderate.

That said, I also believe that those who post here need to be honest about their medication use as well. Use of medication is a very different type of moderation, and is a different topic altogether.

Thank you all for sending me support and for posting your thoughts. I do feel there must be other people who are going through what I am going through.

I would like do another "initial" post and clearly state my situation - and AGAIN - I urge each person to honestly assess their own situation before deciding to try and moderate. I know that one thing that makes me not feel ashamed or upset with the occasional drink is that I am not always wanting more. I absolutely would not want any alcohol tonight and can tell you for certain that none will be consumed this week. But, I will continue to be honest and share what I'm going through because it is the only way to get any benefit from a forum such as this. And who knows, maybe I'll fail miserably and end up back at a place I don't want to be.

Back in a bit - going to cook salmon and corn fritters with arugula and dill. *Love* spring herbs and fresh cooling!

[KENSHO]

If you have't watched, or better yet read, WILD by Cheryl Strayed I highly recommend it. I read that book in the height of me trying to understand my relationship with alcohol. Besides some passages of strikingly beautiful language, Strayed captured how nature and quiet can help us face our demons and then allow us to listen to our basic needs. My husband and I used to backpack a lot, and for me, being in the woods and working up a sweat with everything you need to live for days on your back brings a clarity I don't find in the daily rat race. Life feels simple, clean and there is time to think while focusing on nothing more thanputting one foot in front of the other.

I drank in my 20's, and often for the wrong reasons (is there a right reason?) - mostly for discomfort from social anxiety. But it was when we got a house, undertook the responsibilities of a full time job (I started a business), and had children that needed both our money and our time - that I began to feel a disconnection with myself. I drank more because the pace was too fast and I felt I couldn't keep up - I wanted an escape. I would love to have more time now to sit in nature and reflect and breathe clean air.

Anyway - this morning I have puffy cheeks. Retaining water? Not sure how one drink on Saturday could affect me today - but the point is that I have very negative associations regarding alcohol. The list of ways it affected me is a mile long - and none of it good: puffy face, slow and nauseous mornings, horrible sleep and nightmares, distance from my family and relationships, a poor complexion, obsessive thinking, lying, spending too much money, feeling like a fraud, anxiety, depression, liver pain, eye twitching, sound sensitivity, extreme irritability, on and on. The only thing it gave me that I wanted was an escape from my life.

To reconcile these, I first quit for several 30+ day periods, and a couple 60+day periods. I think many people have to quit for longer. During this time, I was able to see the above symptoms subside completely, and not drinking felt WONDERFUL! But I still had this problem that I was used to escaping my life and my issues. SO, one by one, I've had to face those issues and deal with them. I learned basic stuff like: sleep when tired, eat when hungry, cry when sad. Without alcohol, I was able to discuss a few things with my husband calmly - without triggering his defenses, and he heard me. I have been able to give my children attention they need and deserve, as well as set limits with them that I previously let them walk all over. I have begun to be able to say "no" to new projects when I have enough on my plate. In a nutshell, I gained problem-solving abilities and emotional balance that allowed me to address a lot of the issues I thought were the cause of my drinking. I also found that eating better - i.e. lots of fruits, veggies and good protein, lots of water, a few quality supplements, and - avoiding the sluggishness of high grain consumption - made a difference. I spent time in the Nest, and listened. I wouldn't have been able to stop drinking in the first place without the nurturing, tough love and support that lives there.

I still have issues that are hard. I have trouble focusing and so in order to do my job, I have to get hyper focused, and there is a temptation to be a workaholic. I need to learn better time management. I also need to be more social. It has never come naturally to me to be in a room with lots of people and just chit chat. I don't know what to say. Trying to learn to just be light and be me in a crowd.

BUT the point that I so clearly understand is that I don't want the physical and emotional effects of alcohol any more. I hate feeling them. I hate being drunk, I hate being hungover and I hate being outside my life. I want to be in it, every moment. That is where I belong. And I have been fortunate enough to have challenges that I have been able to face and address.

I think that people have different levels of physical addiction to alcohol. And I think everyone has different challenges in their lives and that some are much, much harder than what I have lived through. For these reasons, each person has to get through this process in their own way. There is absolutely no question in my mind that EVERY person has to A) go without alcohol for at LEAST 30 days - if not 90 or more - to gain the perspective that is needed to address life without alcohol, then B) begin the process of developing new coping skills and ways to deal with challenges. Without A or B, the cycle just continues to repeat. If I could add a C) - it would be to be brave. This is one of the hardest things I've ever faced.

One thing that has really helped me is that I don't want to hide from life. Bring it. Give me all you got - I'm a fighter. I wanted to beat this and live the life I was given.

Because I don't view alcohol as a solution any more, and because I really don't care for its effects, I am able to have some on occasion. I think it's stupid, dangerous, unhealthy, and our society capitalizes on it. Because my view of alcohol has shifted from a romanticized or fun necessity for enjoyment - to a distraction from real life - it is no longer something I want or need to feel "complete".

SO someone recently asked, "how did you get to where you are", and I would say, 1. stop drinking, 2. spend some time with yourself, 3. begin to solve your problems and learn you can function, and function better, without alcohol, and 4. change your associations with alcohol. And if the addiction will always take you to back to uncontrollable drinking, stop drinking altogether.

[scottish lass]

Kensho - just bought Wild and looking forward to reading it - even more now!
Yesterday's supper sounded delicious:happy2:.
I love the way you are thinking through all you have done and are doing, and how it makes you feel & react. What a worthwhile task. As NS pointed out in the year before I quit, I was not drinking much - but I feel that year was different as I was trying not to drink, so I was not succeeding in what I was aiming. I have gained TONs and do not intend to throw any of it away, I also want to learn from my gains.

[KENSHO]

SL, I agree that moderating when you are always wanting more of something is very different than not really wanting "said thing" and having a little if the opportunity comes up and you allow it. Moderating the first way is struggling. The second situation is not. Many people don't believe the second way is possible. But I can tell you, and you seem to agree, that for some, it is. At least for me, for now. I do not have a crystal ball, but I am very happy with good dinners and great books and sweating on a trail, and enjoying my children's laughter - and alcohol just gets in the way of these things.

[KENSHO]

Working late tonight. I've been procrastinating doing this accounting paperwork - I truly hate it. Time to get it off my plate. I used to drink on nights like tonight (well, I used to drink every night) - but I haven't had a drink for the stress of working late in many, many months - like 9 or so? Feels good to find other ways to deal - because my work suffered and I suffered the next day! Not an option any more. Mostly because it's just not worth it. Here's hoping I'm quick at my data entry!!

[KENSHO]

Rainy morning here. Not much sun yet this spring! Great for green grass, not great for outdoor activities! My brother in law is coming to visit this weekend. He is the one who used to keep large bottles of pedialyte in his refrigerator because it helped tame hangovers. They may or may not be surprised when I don't partake. I could not be more disinterested in the effects of alcohol at this time.

I've always been a little hypersensitive about my body and been very "tuned in" to its happenings. Maybe that is why I notice the effects of alcohol on a magnified scale. There are a variety of reasons I want and need to be at the top of my game right now - and AL just doesn't fit into that picture.

I do miss a community here. I may start up a thread in the moderators section. The only thing is that I want to talk about how great life is without alcohol - not count drinks or feel like I'm starving myself of a substance I want. That's the tone I need to be around now. Any interest? Sort of a "Top of your game" thread?

[Ginger999]

Hi Kensho! I saw your post about "Wild". I thoroughly enjoyed the book. We are hikers and used to be long trip backpackers. Sticking to day hikes now that we are older. Lame excuse but there it is!

I've read back through your thread. I'd consider myself an alcoholic. I can not stop once I start. It's never enough for me. I'm happy for you if you are able to moderate. My hubby drinks that way. Wants a beer, has "a" beer. Nope not me. I want "a" beer and have a six pack. Want a glass of wine; have a bottle.

I hope you can create your own community here. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to do that. Make it your own and they will come.... I'll be watching for a new thread from you. I can never moderate but I'd love to follow along on your journey. Good luck!

[frances]

Hi Kensho - I'd be interested. I'm still posting in NN and do not plan to ever mention anything other than abstinence there. But I'd be happy to be able to be open about what is happening in my life. I am not trying to be hypocritical and I do believe that abstinence is the best approach for many, and probably the vast majority, of people here. In general, I don't participate much on any thread here though (I think I'm an online introvert as much as I am one 'in real life'!), so not sure how much I'll contribute but would love to see and read and post when I can! I do track when I drink now just so I can validate that it continues to be in control, but my drinking is so infrequent it is not worth discussing on any thread here, at least not to have that be the main point of the posts. I'm 'in' if you decide to do it!

I also wanted to mention yesterday how much I agreed with your earlier post when you said that moderating when you are always wanting more of something is very different than not really wanting "said thing" and having a little if the opportunity comes up and you allow it. That's where I am right now and don't have any reason to believe at this point that it will change, though I am aware and conscious that it might and I stay on guard for that.

[KENSHO]

Hi Ginger. Thanks for the support, even though our journeys aren't exactly the same. I am so happy that you have learned what works for you and are doing that! Let's none of us waste another moment letting alcohol be the boss. We're so much better leaders of ourselves - alcohol doesn't deserve a place in the driver's seat.

[scottish lass]

The great thing about this site is that there is no one way - finding our own way to what we want for ourselves is what this si all about. Box me in and I want to punch out
Maybe there is a need for another area - and "in-betweeners"
I will also happily follow along. I am continuing to ponder what my path will be - I am content where I am for the present, but the thoughts continue to bop around in my brain and it is great to be able to put a voice to them. Processing thoughts definitely helps to work out reason. A drink because it is wanted once in a while is really different than drinking at something, or to try to change something....

[KENSHO]

"A drink because it is wanted once in a while is really different than drinking at something, or to try to change something...."

SL, unless that drink puts you in jeopardy of going down a slippery slope. I think some people's chemistry responds to one drink (for WHATEVER reason) with wanting more and maybe not being able to stop. I have noticed something in myself when I drink two or more nights in a row - my body begins to think about it more and I have more thoughts. If I rarely have any, this does not happen. I would guess each of us responds differently.

Oh, and no boxing. (and no punching!)

[KENSHO]

Feeling very grateful to not be drinking. Lots to do - and lots of stress, but sleep is much better medicine than alcohol. I've enjoyed watching the baby robin I saved grow and thrive. His mama is bringing worms to him and his brother, and their tails are growing. They must be about 2-1/2 or 3 weeks old. Makes me feel good that my back yard is a sanctuary for this kind of life. (I'm quite sure I would not have stood at my kitchen window and watched them when I was drinking - either too focused on being numb or too tired and sick from being hungover).

Looking forward to a fun weekend with in-laws. I wonder if they will comment on me not drinking? Today is the kids' last day of school - so I am looking forward to sleeping in a bit and having the time with them that I keep saying I want to have. Also a teensy bit nervous about having less work time. Interviewing today for a very large project - not sure I want it, or can do it - but its worth a years salary alone. Good opportunity to evaluate priorities. Maybe I can put it off for a few months? Not sure if $$ is worth pulling my hair out? Because if I don't pull my hair out with stress like this, I want to drink. And that is not a position I need to be putting myself in. But a year's salary......