Addictions - both sides of the story

[dancelot]

Addictions - both sides of the story

Eternity;833659 wrote: My emphasis was on the "as long as you stay in the system" bit.
I'm sorry to read a relapse of eight years and for all the pain Dancelot suffered.

What I meant by 'being in a system' was an effort to prevent and/or intervene such relapses.
In that light, seeing an individual suffer additional layers of depression about "losing the sobriety" seems like a load they shouldn't have to carry.

I didn't in any way imply to make light work of it or mean it's okay to relapse. All I'm saying is if one seeks immediate help and suffers as little as possible, it may even offer the chance to be aware of what went wrong and offer some clues that will make sobriety easier. Think of it as being sober with one less fear - it works.

Sometimes it's not how many days but how far you come that gives better remission rates.

Thanks for clarifying!

[shame]

Addictions - both sides of the story

Doggygirl
Apologies if my post portrays a message that experienced users of this forum feel is unhelpful to the alcoholic mind (I have one such mind).
I actually thought I had recognised and acknowledged what Dancelot was saying. I also recognise what Eternity was saying. I must add that I know for certain there is no safe way to drink. I have seen constantly the destruction to families, employment, health in the form of Wernickes, Korsakoffs, dementia, hepatic encephalopathy etc etc.
I do think that once one has identified oneself as 'in the profession' and admit to an addiction, higher expectations are expected. An online forum for me is the only way I thought to discuss my problem but maybe it's not the right thing to do.
Anyway, apologies and sincere respect to those who have recovered and those who are getting there on their journeys.

[Eternity]

Addictions - both sides of the story

Although there are some universal do's and dont's in addiction therapy, alcoholism - especially in remission - often follows individual patterns. The disease may be the same for us all, but the patient is unique.

Alcoholism is a clinical disease meaning it must be treated by health-care professionals in a clinic or a rehab center. In an ideal world, the patient gets private counseling and follows group therapies, all the time staying inside a program that's tailor-made for that individual.
His/her immediate family also attends special programs where they learn about the disease and about the finer points of living with an alcoholic.

In the real world, few of us have access or means to that kind of medical care. That's why there are many social organizations out there to support the addict. Stats show that joining one greatly helps with alcohol remission. If you go it alone, it will be a needlessly hard and tiring journey and once you run out of energy to "fight and resist" alcohol, you might be back to square one at best. But perhaps the saddest loss will be the faith in sobriety and in your abilities to deal with this disease. It need not be so devastating.

Shame, with all due respect to online communities, they aren't meant to replace an AA meeting (or equivalent) and to receive real-life counseling.
The accomplishment and satisfaction of actually following a routine and the discipline it brings about is very rewarding - as it allows you take " active responsability of your therapy" that typing on a screen can not manage.

I write here only as a fellow alcoholic. While I'm willing to share my experiences as a therapist, I don't claim any expertise over anyone else on the subject. Most of what I have to say has to do with lapse/relapse prevention and perhaps offer a different perspective.

DG - I may be new to this forum, but you been here since 2007 - yet you still search for ways to turn alcoholics into social drinkers? To my understanding, you find my messages might negatively impact those who are new at attempting sobriety. I beg to differ.

Lapses, relapses, slips are very real and often experienced. An addict's best shot at handling and/or totally avoiding those is the knowledge and awareness about both his/her disease, the self and knowing the right time to ask for help. Looks more complicated that it really is - but it's entirely doable. Whether you been sober for 10 years or 10 minutes, same principles apply.

I can sympathise with the desire bit, but you seem to believe "that there really IS a way to safely drink".. Well, that doesn't seem real to me at all. Even if you could miraculously manage to drink again, in all retrospection - would you really want to ? Haven't we all learned and suffered enough to say the definitive final NO to alcohol ?

Love & Peace :goodluck:

[Cinders]

Addictions - both sides of the story

Eternity,

If you carefully reread DG's post, you will see that she adamantly believes that alcoholics can never be a social drinker.

She does know that there are some on this site who have learned to moderate but also knows they are not alcoholics.

There are those who abuse alcohol and do not become alcoholics. Just like I actually know those who smoke cigarettes occasionally but do not smoke them everyday or crave them the way I do, as a true cigaholic.

DG is one of our true bright spots on this site. She came on in 2007 and stayed sober for 6 months, after that she decided one day, I have this licked, and tried to moderate. After 8 months of hell, she came back. She has been sober ever since and often counsels those who are considering moderation what her experience was.

She does not push or shove her beliefs about alcoholism down anyone's throat because she knows that it is a personal choice to quit. It has to be.

But she does support everyone here and in an incredible way.

Cindi

[sick of being sick]

Addictions - both sides of the story

I appreciate everyone's opinion and there is alot of good information here. We all try to encourage one another to get and stay sober. I really appreciate the opinion of people who treat acoholics and have a knowledge far greater than mine of this disease. I love and appreciate you all! Thank you for your opinions and trying to help those of us in the beginning stages. I don't judge or get offended as each person has their own knowledge that I want to feed off of!

[Doggygirl]

Addictions - both sides of the story

yet you still search for ways to turn alcoholics into social drinkers?

Ummm.... No. And double no.

DG

[Trish]

Addictions - both sides of the story

I've been reading on & off here for 5 yrs. More so in the last two. I do get what your saying Eternity. Never give up... There is hope as long as your breathing... I think that chronic or occasional relapses generally leads to more relapses. Though I think slips are different. I've experienced both, along with decent amounts of sobriety time. Again the point is don't ever give up. Yet, its so easy to do. Thank you for reminding those still out there suffering not to give up. This is what the disease of addiction wants. It wants you to just give up. Your words are asking the addicted to not give up, no matter what. Bill W. didn't want those still struggling to give up. Not to make a big deal out of it. He'd seen what this type of thinking & belief could do, to those who believed they were defeated.

Yet, I see you trading one addiction for the other. The way you describe your pot smoking. I think your not the type of alcoholic that knows true hell... Be careful, because your weed may lead you back to your doc. In time it will take you to hell... I wonder why you aren't questioning this yourself.

As for DG she is one of the most comforting~supportive people on this forum. She doesn't advocate social drinking for the alcoholic. She helps people take a real honest look at themselves, without slapping them in the face. Guides them to decide. God Bless her... Maybe even chosen. Her approach is one of compassion, her words are wisely chosen. She has an extraordinary gift in helping others. She must know what it's like to be a real alcoholic.... One who has recovered & still in recovery.

All in hope...

[Eternity]

Addictions - both sides of the story

It was a big relief to see I misunderstood DG's words about being able to drink again - my apologies.

In fact, before I signed up at this board, I was reading around to get a feel for it.. It was mostly DG's endearing qualities (among others) that decided for me to join this community.

Trish, you're basically right in noticing I swapped one addiction for another. Weed was a substance I chose out of desperation after my last relapse. I agree it has much negative potential, and hope to quit it altogether very soon. Thanks for the heads-up

You could also be right that I haven't seen 'true hell' - each time I thought I had, something worse came along.. I'd like to think those days are behind for us all and truly wish our future voyages take us into far nicer places.. hopefully towards 'true heaven'..

:l

[shame]

Addictions - both sides of the story

[QUOTE=Eternity;833909].

Shame, with all due respect to online communities, they aren't meant to replace an AA meeting (or equivalent) and to receive real-life counseling.

I write here only as a fellow alcoholic. While I'm willing to share my experiences as a therapist, I don't claim any expertise over anyone else on the subject.

Eternity

With all due respect!
I do not expect this online forum to replace AA or any such counselling.
I too write here primarily only as an alcoholic, with my observations and experiences as a so called professional meant as secondary but hopefully adding the perspective that we too are human and battle these problems. I wish now I had not disclosed this as I feel somewhat not accepted.
Must say I found your comments a bit patronising, but from your perspective that is how you see me.
I have utter admiration for those who have achieved abstinence and know there can be no other way for them. Their experiences may be so out of many peoples comprehension - yet they have survived and share it here with others. Thank you for that all of you!! Those with similar alcohol problems who can moderate, good on you for achieving that. This forum isn't all about extreme alcoholism. It has a spectrum. It involves anybody from anywhere in different degrees and does not discriminate.
Anyway. That's all.
Thanks anyway.