The lowdown on Moderating?

[randomname]

Can anybody here give me the "truth" about moderating? Someone I love owns up to her "drinking problem." She won't do AA or anything else anybody suggests for that matter. But she's latched onto this idea that she can "moderate." I'll admit, as a wine lover myself, it's really really attractive to think that she could one day drink like a "normal" person (whatever that means). But, seriously, I've never seen her able to stop at just 1 glass. And, seriously, her idea of a glass is a balloon goblet filled to the brim. A 12 oz wine glass, that means 4 actual drinks per glass.

Anyway, is Moderation just an excuse to keep drinking? To avoid the work? Can you go from full-on alcoholic to modding without an abstinence period? I mean, do you have to detox first? I've been reading around this site quite a bit, and I see alot of posting on the bio-chemical effects of alcoholic. Can a person reverse those effects while moderating? Do the effects ever reverse?

Thanks in advance for any information!

[boozehag]

The lowdown on Moderating?

hello random
There is no truth to moderating. It totally depends on the person. IMHO moderating from MWO perspective means starting out with a drinking problem (in my case a pretty serious binge drinking one) and then changing your lifestyle and changing your habits so totally that you go from being a problem drinker to a person who does not really care much one way or another whether they have a drink or not. Generally people moderating seem to have to get a good bit of AF or close to AF time under their belt first (I had 3 months) but that also depends on how bad the drinking problem was in the first place. Some people just recognise that they could have a drinking problem if they continue they way they are so they could possibly moderate off the bat. Its wishful thinking that a person could be a full on alkie one minute and moderate the next. It they could presumably they would so they wouldnt have a problem. Hope this helps. You or your friend should read RJ's book as it is all explained in there.
BH

[DeeBee]

The lowdown on Moderating?

Hi Random,

Like BH says Moderation depends on the person. My idea of moderation is to only have two glasses of wine on the weekend whereas someone else might feel that to have one glass every day is moderation... it has been a hotly debated topic with no right or wrong answer.

I would suggest you start by reading the MWO book and take it from there.

I do agree that it is essential to get as many AF days under your belt as possible before trying to mod.

All the best to you and your loved one!

[LVT25]

The lowdown on Moderating?

Hello Random

You might get a lot of opinions here, but the 2 posts above are right on IMHO. After reading the book, I thought I could just start moderating my alcohol consumption right away. Nope. Almost found out the hard way (near-DUI) that I was not in control.
It was then I finally committed to 30 days AF, which felt so good it turned into 60 days af. At that point I started testing the waters so to speak. Like Boozehag (no More) at this point, I don't think about AL much. It is not an important part of my life. I'm still on guard--always need to be I think. I do not want to go back to that overweight, unhealthy, ciggie smoking, beer drinking person I was for too many years!
I think we need to get honest with ourselves, and until we do--we won't get better.:h

[A Work in Progress]

The lowdown on Moderating?

randomname;440714 wrote: Can anybody here give me the "truth" about moderating? Someone I love owns up to her "drinking problem." She won't do AA or anything else anybody suggests for that matter. But she's latched onto this idea that she can "moderate." I'll admit, as a wine lover myself, it's really really attractive to think that she could one day drink like a "normal" person (whatever that means). But, seriously, I've never seen her able to stop at just 1 glass. And, seriously, her idea of a glass is a balloon goblet filled to the brim. A 12 oz wine glass, that means 4 actual drinks per glass.

Anyway, is Moderation just an excuse to keep drinking? To avoid the work? Can you go from full-on alcoholic to modding without an abstinence period? I mean, do you have to detox first? I've been reading around this site quite a bit, and I see alot of posting on the bio-chemical effects of alcoholic. Can a person reverse those effects while moderating? Do the effects ever reverse?

Thanks in advance for any information!

From what I have seen around here on this site (and in clinical settings in the "real world"), a genuine shift from serious problem drinking (alcohol dependence, or addiction) to consistent "moderation" is possible, but quite rare. And it takes a LOT of work, which amounts to focusing a lot on drinking: when can I drink, and how much can I drink? This of course is totally unlike the approach that non-addicted people have with drinking.... they do NOT focus on when, and how much, they can drink.

Lots of folks here on this site will say that they "tried to mod" or are "trying to mod," which amounts to the same as saying they kept drinking but sometimes got drunk... which is the same thing as saying they continued to engage in alcohol abuse. I did that myself, for long periods of time. It was awful.

So, while it is possible (for a few) to engage in moderate consumption... making the effort to do so is risky (for some, tragically so), and it takes more ongoing effort (I think most here would agree) than simply quitting the drinking and "keeping quit." For the life of me, I cannot imagine why folks would value alcohol so much that they take those risks and go through all that work! But for those who do, I wish them every good fortune, and applaud the fact that in nearly all cases, if nothing else, they have greatly reduced their alcohol consumption. And that is a really, really good outcome, in my opinion.

wip

[nancy]

The lowdown on Moderating?

Yes Work In Progress is right about all this.

I would just like to add to clarify, that maybe what your friend should be doing initially is focusing on cutting down, rather than calling it moderation. A lot of people find moderation really hard to do. I think I have seen more success with cutting down.

Also, certain medications seem to enable moderation, like the anti-seizure drug Topamax, which is part of this program but has side effects and naltrexone, which is written about a lot here.

[Heavenly]

The lowdown on Moderating?

I totally agree with the above.... my moderating was get drunk one night and can't drink the following night because my hangover was so bad !! Is that moderating ?

I know if I drink now I would have one glass and feel drunk, but give me a few days ..maybe a week and I will be back to square 1 ... yes, that fast.

I don't know if you smoke or have smoked but the craving is the same ... in UK I have heard this saying many times....''once a smoker, always a smoker'' and its the same with alcohol drinking.... (IMHO).

Maybe you should introduce your family member/friend to mwo...or is she here already?
Whichever, Good Luck to both of you.

[trixietrack]

The lowdown on Moderating?

you know I truly believe that once a person has gone from heavy drinking (4 to 5) a night with maybe one night off due to maybe having had more than the usual, it is extremely difficult to moderate if not impossible.

here are a few observations to make for yourself if you are a heavy drinker or your friend:

1. do you make excuses to have a drink? like "what a horrible day I had"

2. Do you drink on an empty stomach and continue drinking without eating something?

3. can you just have 1 or 2 drinks and stop without stressing about it?

4. is drinking a priority in social situations?

5. Do you feel ackward in social situations where there is little or no alcohol?

6. are your friends, husbands, wife, partner mostly drinkers?


there are more, but if they or you answer yes to these questions. it will be nearly impossible to moderate.

sometimes people go through heavy periods of drinking, these could last months or years.
then all of a sudden they just stop or slow down. if a person has been drinking heavily for years and years, moderating won't work because they have progressed into a chronic stage in their addiction.

[randomname]

The lowdown on Moderating?

thanks

You know, everybody here has pretty much confirmed what I thought. But, as with all things in life, I know that I can't force her to believe anything. She may need to go through a period of trying to "moderate" before deciding she'd probably be better off being AF.

My biggest clue that she probably can't moderate is that her personality changes even after 1 drink. Like night and day. When she's sober, she's kind of a bitch. Closed off, opinionated. Take no prisoners kind of attitude. After 1 drink and suddenly she's miss social butterfly. But, truly, in a kind of annoying way. I vastly prefer being around her sober.

I'm going to get the books you all recommended. Educating and over educating seems to be the only way I can "help." Even though it may be only helping myself.

[periwinkle]

The lowdown on Moderating?

Wow, Lots of good advice here!

I don't know what your relationship with your "someone you love" is. But it sounds like the two of you are close. I am really happy to hear that she is willing to own up to her "drinking problem". I give her lots of kudos for that! I read between the lines that you are really struggling with this and maybe you need to ask yourself how you are doing with this as it has obviously affected you too.

The most frightening thing when I owned up to my own problem drinking (about 2 weeks ago) was talking to my husband about it. This was strange because he is my best friend and strongest supporter. And it?s not like he didn?t know how much I was drinking. We have had some conversations about it over the past year. At one point I really broke down and told him through the tears that I didn?t want to loose him. He responded by saying that he would not allow that to happen. He sounds like you in some ways. [Hey are you my hubby? LOL] He likes a couple beers while watching football or hockey, he likes to share a good wine with me, he loves a shot of scotch on occasion (I have no idea how he can drink it soooo slowly!), but he absolutely knows how much is too much and while I have seen him go overboard on occasion, it has been rare, and it has been in situations where he would not be driving!

I feel very fortunate to have hubby as one of my biggest supporters. I don?t know why or how, but he has seemingly done everything right through my ?problem?. He has brought it up occasionally but never gave advice or tried to tell me what to do about it. Exception to that statement, he will tell me ?what to do? if he feels that my safety may be at risk. When I found this MWO program I had reached my bottom which for me was lying to my best friend (hubby) about how much alcohol I had drank before he got home from work. Many ?bottoms? are way lower than mine was! But I love and respect him. When I realized that AL?s influence had caused me to put his trust in me in jeopardy, I knew at that moment that I had to do something.

When I finally brought up the MWO program I told him that part of the program suggests a 30 day alcohol free period and asked if he would be willing to do the 30 days with me. His response was ?during football season!?? then chuckled and said that of course he would do that for me. Since that conversation we have had few talks about it and he seems to follow my lead with all of it. He has asked me ?how can I be supportive of your goals?? (with the moderation thing). More important than his words have been his actions. If I?m having tea, he will generally do the same. If I want to share a bottle of wine, he goes with it. He is giving me space in this, and gives me anything I need when I ask for it. I have really taken this seriously and want to start with all my ingredients of the MWO program in order (see "Roberta's recipe" thread). I expect the hypnotherapy cds to arrive today or tomorrow and then I can begin.

My thoughts are that you could ask her how you can best support her then do what she asks. If she says ?nothing? or ?I don?t know? maybe you could pull from my post here with what my hubby?s done and said. You could always form it as a question, ?would it help you for me to moderate with you?? stuff like that. I have some things that I need to keep private about right now and he seems to intuitively know that. If you want to pm me I think I could probably hook you up with my husband via e-mail. He could probably use some support at this point too.

I know this is a really long post. I hope it is helpful. She will need to figure out what will work for her in her own time. Feel free to pm or e-mail me any time. Just give her your love and support. And avoid "advice". She has owned up so give her space to at least try it her way.

Periwinkle

[periwinkle]

The lowdown on Moderating?

latch on with her

Oh and I meant to say, "latch on" to the moderation idea with her. If she tries moderating and sees she can't do it, I suspect that she will in time see that too. Again, I am so happy to hear that she has "owned up".

[TakeHeart]

The lowdown on Moderating?

Hello and Welcome!

I agree with Periwinkle. I thankfully am dating a wonderful guy like her husband (see, single ladies, there are some great guys out there!).

While I haven't openly told my boyfriend about my drinking problem, I am sure he suspects it. Although he hasn't said anything, he has supported me with my recently deciding not to drink 3 weeks before our vacation, to letting me drink during our vacation (which wasn't nearly as much as him!) with no guilt or bad feelings. To supporting me right now in wanting not to drink "for awhile"...length of time underterminable at this moment.

Obviously you seem to love this person. And she's very lucky to have you in her life. I would suggest quietly supporting her by not drinking when she isn't, maybe even suggesting activities that don't involve drinking such as the movies.

And when she wants to drink, let her with no resentment or judgement (assuming of course that she nor anyone else is in harm's way).

We know we have a problem. And fortunately, she's like me and trying to figure it out.

Best to you both!