Rational Recovery

[nancy]

Wow, I just loved Alan Carr's book about stopping drinking, even though my dream is moderation, because it really rang true to me. I think the main point is to voluntarily give up drinking because it just isn't really any fun. Addiction to the substance just makes us lie that it is great. we know the truth.

and so i just bought Rational Recovery by Jack Trimpey.

I am a little bit shocked at this book. There is all this AA bashing in the beginning. I have a lot of doubts about AA myself, but it seems a bit extreme to talk about what you are not in such a bashing way before giving a positive message.

but i don't know if i want to continue with this book. It has some elements of the Alan Carr book, the idea that alcoholism is not an incurable disease, which I agree with. And I think that it is wrong to assume we are powerless against the problem. and we do better when we voluntarily give up because common sense tells us it is not good for us. so far so good.

but all this business about the addictive voice being an "it" or a "beast". Reading about buddhism, I have been moving towards incorporating all the parts of myself, including unpleasant parts. I find this book a little bit jarring.

anyone else read it?

[julie001]

Rational Recovery

Nancy,

I've read the book. It didn't motivate me to change. I'm not a fan of it. Nothing is black and white. I'm not a fan of AA either. I have a family member who has been a member of it off and on for 20+ years. Hasn't healed her. It may work for some. I'm not a fan of the supposed religious aspect of it. I also think it's been talked about too long as the only cure. Not my experience, as far as my family member is concerned. She's certainly not cured or even realistically thinking about life without alchol. My family member is much more a hardcore drinker than I am. She has difficulty supporting any semblence of a normal adult life. That's probably why I had such a difficult time admitting that I had a problem. It nowhere comes close to hers.

Anyway...off on a tangent. It's been a year or so since I read Rational Recovery. I bought so many books about drinking. I do remember the concept of "the beast" when I recall that book. I remember thinking that it was a easy-out factor, not a fixing factor. I am a firm believer that we can fix our problems with the right mentality. That's why I think this program may work. It's about mind change...controlling our own destiny. I also believe we need to face our own unpleasant parts. That's what all of us here are trying to do. Thank goodness we have each other's support.

Julie

[azhm]

Rational Recovery

I didn't think much of rational recovery, it is an angry book and he seems to discount most everything many other groups have done or believed. Trimpey is kind of like the Ann Coulter of the recovery world. He has a take no prisoner approach. His program seems focused more on what is wrong with other programs than what his program can do. Nowhere can you find any info on recovery (however defined) rates for his program.

If I'm not mistaken his program was originally based on Ellis' Guide to Rational Living, a really good book which I found very helpful years ago to get past some bad thinking habits I learned in my youth, and while I credit that book with greatly improving my attitude and thinking I didn't stop drinking.

I like what Nancy has tro say above. This program seems to offer a more holistic and caring approach. I agree it is about mind change, but I also think that attending to the body and inner self is so important because it seems to me that so much of what I feel, think and consequently do is influenced by what I eat and the way I do or don't take care of myself.

[amethyst]

Rational Recovery

I read RR last year. It is a very angry and negative book. The only way he shows to control drinking is to constantly tell yourself( the beast) "I will never drink again. I will never change my mind" etc... In my mind, that is focusing on what you DON'T want, rather than what you DO want. In constantly telling yourself I won't drink, our subconscious minds don't hear the *won't*- they just hear I drink.(at least that is what my research tells me about this sort of programming) Twice this past week I have come across this saying- *that which we resist persists* I think that applies here as well. That being said, I used RR to chase the drink away for a period of 3 months, till I decided I could moderate, and had no framework to sanely try to do so. It can work, but I think the MYO approach takes into account biological and chemical inbalances with the supps and meds, as well as education with the book, positive framing with the cd's, and non-judgemental support with the message boards. All in all a much more holistic and satisfying way to approach a multi-dimensional problem.

[dilayne]

Rational Recovery

good to hear your reviews on this..thanks!
d

[karma7171]

Rational Recovery

I thought that this book had some merit

While he does go over the top on bashing AA....I could relate to many of his comments. I have always said that it is like an alien comes in and takes over....regardless there is a voice in my head that resembles me and comes up with all the good excuses to have a drink right now. His I think is the first book I read that takes that voice on head to head.

I liked both Allen Carr and RR....but these are merely tools...as is everything else we use to help us stay sober. Ultimately it is about reaching deep down inside and pulling the real you up out of the rubble that addiction has caused. Then strengthening that part of you...until the "drinking you" becomes weaker and weaker. The "drinking me" seems to be like a bad horror flick....just when you think the bad guy can't possibly get up again....he does again and then again. And then one more time for the special effect. And then several months later they come out with the sequel..."Drinking Kim 2" .....

Kim

[nancy]

Rational Recovery

read more of the book, and started a new one!

I felt I should keep an open mind. I didn't finish all of RR but got a good deal of the way through it.

one thing resonated with me is that addicts find pleasure or relief in alcohol. that is why we don't want to stop. pure and simple. also, i think it is true that there are all kinds of things we should resist (like let's say if you are in a relationship and are attracted to someone else), but there is a thinking part of the brain that sometimes hold sway. i like the idea of responsibility as long as it isn't extremely tough love.

but i really dont liike the idea of having a beast inside me. i think it is best to integrate the bad things with the good. thinking of addiction as something foreign or evil doesn't really appeal to me.

in the last four months i have read:
MYO
Moderation Management
Meditation for beginners
RR
Alan Carr's Easyway to stop alcohol

I am AMAZED at the range of theories about what addiction is and how to cure it.

Now i am onto a new book that might hold part of the answer. Someone on one of these message boards recommended The Addictive Personality by Craig Nakken.

I just read the first four pages and hope there are solutions in this book. it already strikes me as a good book. It starts out by suggesting that addictive people look at the substance of their addiction as something that is emotionally nurturing. they get a mood change from the substance and unlike perhaps their relationship with people, it is a predictable mood change. but it is only an illusion of nurturing that we actually get from the substance. then comes the grief when the temporary mood change is over.

WOW
this is me

the reason that psychotherapy is unhelpful is that the problem is not intellectual, but emotional. the addict feels emotionally rewarded, full, when the substance is there. this quest for fullness, completeness, drives addiction, regardless of the substance.

There are a few religious sounding references that I will have to probably ignore as an agnostic. in any case, i could look at it from a humanistic perspective, or from the perspective that there are mysteries about what leads to spiritual fulfillment.

Anyway, check this bit out from page 1:

At times in our lives, most of us find this wholeness of peace and beauty, but then it slips away, only to return at another time. when it leaves us, we feel sadnes and even a slight sense of mourning. This is one of thenatural cycles of life, and it's not a cycle we can control.... We can accept these cycles and learn from them or we can fight them, searching instead for elusive happiness. Addiction can be viewed as an attempt toconrol these uncontrollable cycles... Addiction, on its most basic level, is an attempt to control and fulfil this desire for happiness.