Why not phenibut?

[CrazyCatLady]

I'm waiting on my baclofen and have been reading a lot about it and came upon a lot of information about phenibut. It looks like it's the exact same thing, only much less expensive and where I am in the US it's sold as a supplement. I ordered some.

From what I can tell, 1 gram = 10 mg of baclofen. There's lots of information around about using it for anxiety, but almost none about using it for alcoholism. It works on GABAb receptors, just like baclofen.

Does anyone know of cases where people have used phenibut just like baclofen? There are lots of warnings about it because it causes tolerance and withdrawal (just like baclofen), but, like baclofen, there seems to be an upper limit.

Any of you science types have an opinion?

[terryk]

Why not phenibut?

Tolerance to baclofen's therapeutic effects generally does not occur and escalation of dose is rare. And while long-term baclofen use creates a physical dependence that results in withdrawal symptoms upon abrupt cessation - safe, comfortable downward titration is (in most patients) readily acheivable.

While phenibut is very similar to baclofen (chemically nearly identical) and may curb alcohol use by acting GABAb, it also may act as a direct substitute (for alcohol) at GABAa, and it has earned a reputation for rapid tolerance and dose escalation that leads to nasty withdrawal and a very difficult taper:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ml#post1195503

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ml#post1212707

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ml#post1103495

-tk

[BetterAndBetter]

Why not phenibut?

I've used phenibut recreationally several times when I added a small amount to a supplement purchase I was making. Thought it might feel a little like GHB... something from the old days. It wasn't that great, IMO, for a buzz/anti-anxiety and sounds like it would be a lot more trouble to manage, according to online reports, fior alcohol control, than baclofen. People use phenibut recreationally and tolerance develops quickly resulting in unwanted situations of physical addiction and withdrawal. They're not using it for alcohol cessation, though, and probably run out of it without foresight, as dosages increase through tolerance. As a substitute for bac to deal with alcohol? I wouldn't try it. Baclofen doesn't offer any kind of buzz... unless you count an uncomfortable speedy feeling that can make others nervous... or when you get "dizzy"... or restless when you want to sleep. You get weird shit, titrating up, but not the kind of shit that makes you want to do more of it! It addresses the basic cravings without trying to be a mental substitute for alcohol. For me, at doses of 60-80mg day, it gets rid of my anxiety like I would guess an effective SSRI-type drug would with no side effects. (That's just where I eventually settled. There are all kinds of different dosages that work for people here.)

[CrazyCatLady]

Why not phenibut?

I have found a few reports of people using phenibut daily, but they were using it for general anxiety, not alcoholism. They did report rapid tolerance, but also that when they hit a certain dose that it leveled out. It sounded a lot like the protocol for raising the baclofen dose until indifference. The GABAa thing (if it's happening) is a scary thought because of the drugs that do that. Why is GABAb not harmful? I haven't wrapped my brain around that yet.

I've been supplementing with amino acids (protocol in Julia Ross' The Mood Cure), and they work pretty well for everything but GABA (i.e. on serotonin, norepinephrin and endorphin). According to Ross, you only have to take the amino acids for 1-12 months in order to cause receptor upregulation and then you can stop and be fine. The reason GABA supplementation doesn't work is because it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier (Ross claims it does). Baclofen works because it does cross the blood brain-barrier. So, if Ross is correct about the upregulation, then we might not have to take baclofen indefinitely. Anyone have any thoughts on that? I mean, what the heck are we doing to our receptors??

Do we have any reports on what happens when someone reaches indifference, lowers to maintenance dose and stays there for a year or so and then stops the baclofen? Maybe there is some repair to the brain and there is no need to continue indefinitely?

[CrazyCatLady]

Why not phenibut?

Currently I'm using L-tyrosine (1.5 grams, morning, mid-morning and mid-afternoon) and DLPA (1 gram mid-morning and mid-afternoon). I'm also using L-glutamine - a gram here and there - but I don't think it does anything. For serotonin she recommends L-tryptophan or 5-HTP, but I don't think serotonin is my problem, so I don't take that one. I also noticed no effect from GABA.

The L-tyrosine works reasonably well for dopamine and norepinephrine, but I have to use much more than the bottle dose. The bottle says take one capsule, once a day. I take 3, 3 times a day. The DLPA also seems to help some with endorphins. I also need more of that than the bottle dose.

The book recommends putting the powder (break open a capsule) on your tongue and waiting 10 minutes and then if you don't feel anything to try another, repeated until you find your dose. Maintain anywhere from a month to a year, checking once a month to see if you're good without it.

[YouKayBee]

Why not phenibut?

CrazyCatLady;1653108 wrote: Currently I'm using L-tyrosine (1.5 grams, morning, mid-morning and mid-afternoon) and DLPA (1 gram mid-morning and mid-afternoon). I'm also using L-glutamine - a gram here and there - but I don't think it does anything. For serotonin she recommends L-tryptophan or 5-HTP, but I don't think serotonin is my problem, so I don't take that one. I also noticed no effect from GABA.

The L-tyrosine works reasonably well for dopamine and norepinephrine, but I have to use much more than the bottle dose. The bottle says take one capsule, once a day. I take 3, 3 times a day. The DLPA also seems to help some with endorphins. I also need more of that than the bottle dose.

The book recommends putting the powder (break open a capsule) on your tongue and waiting 10 minutes and then if you don't feel anything to try another, repeated until you find your dose. Maintain anywhere from a month to a year, checking once a month to see if you're good without it.

Cat lady

The recommended dose for l-glut is 5g a day up to 10g.

I use it for sports recovery, have tried slightly higher but spread out dosage for sugar cravings as well as al and find it can make a slight difference, but mostly only if everything else is in place ie don't rely on it.

[Stalteri on the break]

Why not phenibut?

Just seem this thread today. Phenibut is no laughing matter. The withdrawals are horrific. Tolerance builds like nothing you could imagine. Use it for more than say a week every day and rather you than me that's all I can say.

[Alky]

Why not phenibut?

Sure, go for phenibut, if you want to substitute one addiction for another

[Neo]

Phenibut: The Soviet smart drug

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Hey Neo.

You'll find the topic discussed in this thread:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/medication-research-and-support/91118-phenibut-alcohol-withdrawal-cravings.html

And in this post there are links to several other threads.

https://www.mywayout.org/community/medication-research-and-support/91118-phenibut-alcohol-withdrawal-cravings-post1596218.html#post1596218

I'd use it with extreme caution if you decide to go that route. Frankly, baclofen is a lot safer without the risk of addiction and with many of the same effects. (Both work on Gaba-b, yadda, yadda, yadda.) I'll let you see what the others have to say about it, since it was too long ago that I looked into it.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Oh. Here's the same post that Terry put on the other thread. It's on this thread, too.

Tolerance to baclofen's therapeutic effects generally does not occur and escalation of dose is rare. And while long-term baclofen use creates a physical dependence that results in withdrawal symptoms upon abrupt cessation - safe, comfortable downward titration is (in most patients) readily acheivable.

While phenibut is very similar to baclofen (chemically nearly identical) and may curb alcohol use by acting GABAb, it also may act as a direct substitute (for alcohol) at GABAa, and it has earned a reputation for rapid tolerance and dose escalation that leads to nasty withdrawal and a very difficult taper:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ml#post1195503

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ml#post1212707

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ml#post1103495

-tk

[Neo]

Hi Neva, Yes even the article recommends caution . Funny with nasty side affects if abused it is available OTC . These are low dose 250mg tabs

Phenibut Capsules

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Honestly, I've used it on a couple of different occasions just to see what the fuss was about. I definitely would not take it regularly or in an attempt to keep away from alcohol after what I've read on here and some other forums about it.

I didn't really have any effects from it, but I'm taking high-dose-baclofen and have been for years. Maybe the two are too similar and that's why? I don't know enough about drugs to know. And I am kind of chicken about taking anything, so it's pretty unusual that I tried it at all. (A friend was very encouraging about the way it helped him focus. He ended up really regretting using it to try to keep away from the booze.)

[Neo]

I've started on L-Glutamine in the morning but jury is still out for me on that one.
I want clarity and focus on the job at hand but think I'll play my 1st 2-3 weeks out and leave phenibut on the backburner for the moment

[Ne/Neva Eva]

That sounds like a good plan, Neo.

There're some other nootropics I'd try before using phenibut. You can get modafinil and ardafinil (I think that's the name?) online, though not as easily as phenibut. (Which is very ironic since they're not addictive.)

As for the L-glut, I've heard mixed things. I think it works best if you take a whole bunch of it throughout the day...I can't remember how much though.

A dear friend of mine was amazed when she first started taking it, but the effects wore off. So I'd say that if it works for you, and it seems to work well for some people, take advantage of it while it's working and make plans for a sober life!

Good luck, Neo. I'll be keeping an eye out for you. Keep us posted down here in the meds threads, too!